Question:
This is a true story of something that happened just a few years ago at
USC.
There was a professor of philosophy there who was a deeply committed
atheist..............
His primary goal for one required class was to spend the entire semester
attempting to prove that God couldn't exist.
His students were always afraid to argue with him because of his
impeccable logic.
For tw enty years, he had taught this class and no one had ever had the
courage to go against him.
Sure, some had argued in class at times, but no one had ever really gone
against him because of his reputation.
At the end of every semester on the last day, he would say to his classof 300 students, "If there is anyone here who still believes in Jesus,
stand up!"
In twenty years, no one had ever stood up. They knew what he was going
to do next. He would say, "Because anyone who believes in God is a
fool.
If God existed, he could stop this piece of chalk from hitting the
ground and breaking. Such a simple task to prove that He is God, and
yet He can't do it."
And every year, he would drop the chalk onto the tile floor of the
classroom and it would shatter into a hundred pieces.
All of the students would do nothing but stop and stare.
Most of the students thought that God couldn't exist. Certainly, a
number of Christians had slipped through, but for 20 years, they ha
been too afraid to stand up.
Well, a few years ago there was a freshman who happened to enroll.
He was a Christian, and had heard the stories about his professor.
He was required to take the class for his major, and he was afraid. But
for three months that semester, he prayed every morning that he would
have the courage to stand up no matter what the professor said, or what
the class thought.
Nothing they said could ever shatter his faith...he hoped.
Finally, the day came. The professor said, "If there is anyone here who
still believes in God, stand up!" The professor and the class of 300
people looked at him, shocked, as he stood up at the back of the
classroom.
The professor shouted, "You FOOL!!!
If God existed, he would keep this piece of chalk from breaking when it hits the ground!"
He proceeded to drop the chalk, but as he did, it! slipped out of his
fingers, off his shirt cuff, onto the pleat of his pants, down his leg,
and off his shoe. As it hit the ground, it simply rolled away unbroken.
The professor's jaw dropped as he stared at the chalk. He looked up at
the young man, and then ran out of the lecture hall.
The young man who had stood, proceeded to walk to the front of the room
and shared his faith in Jesus for the next half hour.
300 students stayed and listened as he told of God's love for them and
of His power through Jesus.
That story made my eyes leak!
Thank you KimberlyJoy
Margaret
margaret,
quite a powerful story eh? i thought so too!
have a g-nite,
KJ
Discussion about this on Snopes.com, where they classify it as a story of indeterminate origin (as opposed to true or false).
Chalk Story
Some stories don't have to be PROVED. They STAND on their own, and the believing is left up to you.
I'm standing.
Dove
Sorry but can i just say
I wish everyone to realise that there are other religions on this board whoses strong faiths are not in christianity and Jesus.
Allah - Buddha and so on.
I can convinced that if someone posted about Allah there would be a difference in attitude.
Example:
Say this exact same story but Muslim version - not christian version? With Mohammed and not Jesus?????
Reaction?
Be honest now.
Paw-
You made a great point.
I think again that this is a very touchy topic which can divide people here. We all saw what happened on the last religious thread. As you mentioned this is a very diverse religious group here.
My personal opinion is that these religious posts may not belong here. That is just my personal opinion. It is also based on my religion which jesus is not a part of.
That is all I am going to say and my last response to any religious threads.
Any philosophy professor worth his tenure wouldn't rely on such weak justification to prove his point. Urban legend. If God really exists he'll stop this post from going through.............
oops, it went through. What does it all mean?
Pminear:
I belive everybody has the right to believe in whatever religion that they want to but I thought this was a PSORIASIS Message Board. I think there are sights that would be more appropriate for this type of posting.
Religion is a very touchy subject lets not get into a debate over who's religion is right or wrong --whatever works for you is cool!
Hi. While I agree that the topic of religion can be divisive, I would have to disagree that the posts do not belong here. A couple reasons: First, the other post was KJ's legitimate question as to how she addresses her psoriasis versus her beliefs when she is questioned on this, which is definately psoriasis-related. Secondly, for many people, their religion is a source of comfort and may be a tool (not the best word, I know) to help them deal with their psoriasis. Arguably, the topic of religion is more relevant to a psoriasis board than, say a joke or a gripe thread. (And I enjoy both those.)
What I would not support is anyone forcing their views on others, or putting down others' beliefs. I would be the first to endorse deletion of any such posts, whether they were for or against my particular religion. But KJ's post was uplifting in nature, as evidenced by some of the replies she received. And I think that way more good than bad came out of the original post.
To not allow those for whom religion is an important part of their lives to discuss that here comes close to the recent dispute about those who preferred natural remedies feeling left out/attacked.
There is always the option to simply not read a particular thread.
This could go way to far where people could get offended because others are posting in support of their favorite sports teams. (Especially when they happen to be disillusioned, i.e. Yankees fans ;) )
And finally, to answer the question (a good one) that Paw posed regarding a hypothetical story that was posted involving a Muslim figure: As a Christina, I probably wouldnt be able to relate to the story, and I probably would not get much from that post. But, that's OK. I don't need to personally benefit from every post on here. If 100 people read such a post and one drew inspiration or comfort from it, then it has done its job and belongs here.
To close, I can just say to KJ to keep it up; that you are an inspiration to me (and probably others) in many ways.
Robb
ps - Why do my posts always end up so darn long????
While I agree with everything you have said RCana religion is not really the question here
Its peoples perceptions and peoples attitudes towards such topics.
By all means have a thread on religion but there was a fracas in the last thread that resulted in a member being hurt and considering leaving the board and a few others being offended.
These lines cannot be blurred.
This is a board about psoriasis and not about religion. The focus needs to be on the disease, the treatment, the effects etc. Let's work together to keep it there.
gail
Perhaps posts intended to be inspirational in nature which are faith-related, can just be generalized. The thread about how people reconciled their illnesses to their religious beliefs could eaily have been directed to anyone who adheres to a religion since in virtually all cases, people who believe in God believe that God is 'good' so to speak, rather than vindictive.
My thoughts are this...I do not care for these religious stories and would just as soon they not be here. They are of no interest to me although I am as much of a Christian as I am able.
However, I would like to point out that they have as much place here as about a quarter of the threads which have nothing to do about P. Spiderman's jokes for one, and just the one that comes to mind. I also have no need for that thread.
So I will not spend much time reading either thread...the only interest that this one stoked was trying to avoid a war here, that is the last thing we need. We get together on the NPF board to share with each other. All of us have different needs and different knowledge.
So please. Ignore the threads that displease you. Let those that are interested read them. Only if you fight the problem do you make it a problem. Peace in whatever you believe. Far be it from us to tell you what to believe.
Z
this is a community board is it not. its kinda like howard stern on the radio people will listen to the entire show totaly hating it and calling in to tell him how much they hate it when all they have to do is turn it off. same thing here if you dont like what you are reading then simply click yer mouse. topics like religion certainly are needed on this board - not to stir the pot - but to give people hope in some desperate times. and im sure that a lot of people here have had their fill of those. im pretty sure that HOPE can be translated by ALL religions
Why is it always my posts that start this kind of confusion?
Zara: i dont think there is a need for discussion, each individual has their opinion, and thats the way it stays
Dove: Oh Boy! exactly what i was thinking!
Mag: I dont know about others on this board, but i can personally say that i would not be offended. As i have told many ppl... everyone has their own opinions and everyone has a right to say them.
Makeitgoaway: im sorry, but from what i understand, there are no rules as to what we are allowed to post on this board.
pminear: oh! good point (can you hear the sarcasm in my voice?)
TLd317: Personal opinions, everyone has their own. but personally, i dont wanna spend my life worrying about p... i'd rather go to a p message board and be able to talk about anything with fellow sufferers
Ill reply to the rest later, dont have time now
I totally agree with Z. Any post that does not interest you can be skipped. It's that easy. Some of us are interested.
I'd also like to comment on Paw's question. You are right in your observation. But, I feel that God is just one word for one religion. It doesn't matter what he's called. You really could substitute your own Deity/Almighty/Great White Father/Buddha/Allah ( and forgive me, they don't have to be in that order) or whatever you want to call him/her and I would not take offense. It's the belief, not what you believe that is important to me.
And it absolutely does help me get through each day, no matter what I have to face. So, it's as much a part of life as my Psoriasis. I'm not asking anyone to believe as I do. In the same way, don't tell me I can't say it. Go on to another thread if this one distresses you.
I use to put God Bless at the end of my messages. I quit so I wouldn't offend. I feel like we have to walk on egg shells lately. Offense is taken where none is meant. PLEASE, can we agree not to agree and just skip what we don't want to read?????
Dove cares.
Dove, I'll second that. Personally, I avoid some of the obviously more depressing threads, because that is a place I had visited not that long ago and I try to stay away from there now. I found that my mood could be influenced by what I read, i.e. how bad things might get, and we all know what a negative frame of mind can do to us! So, if I see a thread titled "Nightmare" or some such thing, I happily skip it by.
Someone said the board should ONLY be about psoriasis. To me, that's giving this damn thing too much credit, and could result in a much darker place. Personally, I have enjoyed those "unrelated" posts that let me know something about the person who wrote it - what type of person they are, how they think, etc. Psoriasis is not the only side of us that we show in our lives, so it shouldn't be all we show here either.
And while I agree that people can have less than ideal attitudes towards the touchier topics in life such as religion, where we have many people coming from different directions, I have in my few months reading this board seen conflicts arise from many different types of posts. Some of these would be considered harmless topics, such as my flip remark about the Yankees earlier. (Thanks to the Red Sox for giving it a little more oomph tonight, anyway!) I've also seen people ready to leave because of psoriasis-related posts/threads. In short, you never know what could offend anyone, you can just try your best not to and hope for the best. To me, that makes this board more like real life than many that I've seen and the interesting people here - and not necesarily any facts I can get regarding my disease - are what makes me come back.
Robb
KJ: "Zara: i dont think there is a need for discussion, each individual has their opinion, and thats the way it stays"
I honestly could not understand your response to my comment.
I was merely suggesting that ecumenism would be a peaceful approach to any discussion involving religion on this board. Substituting 'God' for 'Christ' in a post doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me. And in the spirit of the Holy Trinity, why should it be?
I actually thought it was what Lahdove meant when she said:
"But, I feel that God is just one word for one religion. It doesn't matter what he's called. You really could substitute your own Deity/Almighty/Great White Father/Buddha/Allah ( and forgive me, they don't have to be in that order) or whatever you want to call him/her and I would not take offense. It's the belief, not what you believe that is important to me."
There has been confusion I believe about my earlier post.
Let me please clear this up.
I am not offended by this thread. Neither am I against this thread.
Who I am to say what should be posted - when and where. No right.
However - Some threads can launch into something that can be offensive.
I would love people who may find something offensive to ignore it but that is not human nature.
All i was trying to do was to stop something from developing and as a direct result have been roasted.
I have also receieved excellent PM's also. So no one should worry about who i am referring to here.
Everyone has an opinion. Thats cool.
Dont worry - I shall not leave the board on the basis of this and i believe no one else should.
I agree with Zwijndrecht - I would rather this type of thread not happen in the first place.
Kimberlyjoy - my lovely this is not anything to do with you whatsoever. I am glad that you have such a strong faith and indeed i commend you wholeheartedly. Keep the faith.
Now as Steve has said - I shall refrain from commenting on other threads of this nature.
This is all
Peace and Love
Paw xxx
And remember what is conveyed talking may convey a totally different meaning when reading.
When i first started reading this site what took my interest was reading all about different things everyone tryed,this is what is interesting now this is my opinion,,,all these other threads are wasting time,why because you read the thread think it's about something else than you have to go back again and start all over,now they're starting to get out of hand,,,it's beginning to feel like a childrens site,now jokes are threads,religion is starting cmon really let's stay with what we are here for,,,,,,P,,,,,,,if i want to read jokes and other non related threads i'd be in another site.Remember this a Psoriasis site....again there are teen and children ,,,p,,, site,,,do your jokes on theat site i'm sure the kids would enjoy this,,,,,,this is really getting way out of touch!!!!!
and believe me i believe in GOD.
ARL
I agree with your point
However - I feel it unfair to open up the whole as P related - but agree 100% that jokes have been dominating the board.
But I have been thinking recently that for a new member joining - maybe the image of this board is that it is little P related at all and more jokes
And I fear that many Question about P threads are falling by the wayside. In favour of this type of thread.
HOWEVER!
Please dont give me a roasting - I am not the most clued up member here!!!!!! :D
Just my thoughts really.
USC.
There was a professor of philosophy there who was a deeply committed
atheist..............
His primary goal for one required class was to spend the entire semester
attempting to prove that God couldn't exist.
His students were always afraid to argue with him because of his
impeccable logic.
For tw enty years, he had taught this class and no one had ever had the
courage to go against him.
Sure, some had argued in class at times, but no one had ever really gone
against him because of his reputation.
At the end of every semester on the last day, he would say to his classof 300 students, "If there is anyone here who still believes in Jesus,
stand up!"
In twenty years, no one had ever stood up. They knew what he was going
to do next. He would say, "Because anyone who believes in God is a
fool.
If God existed, he could stop this piece of chalk from hitting the
ground and breaking. Such a simple task to prove that He is God, and
yet He can't do it."
And every year, he would drop the chalk onto the tile floor of the
classroom and it would shatter into a hundred pieces.
All of the students would do nothing but stop and stare.
Most of the students thought that God couldn't exist. Certainly, a
number of Christians had slipped through, but for 20 years, they ha
been too afraid to stand up.
Well, a few years ago there was a freshman who happened to enroll.
He was a Christian, and had heard the stories about his professor.
He was required to take the class for his major, and he was afraid. But
for three months that semester, he prayed every morning that he would
have the courage to stand up no matter what the professor said, or what
the class thought.
Nothing they said could ever shatter his faith...he hoped.
Finally, the day came. The professor said, "If there is anyone here who
still believes in God, stand up!" The professor and the class of 300
people looked at him, shocked, as he stood up at the back of the
classroom.
The professor shouted, "You FOOL!!!
If God existed, he would keep this piece of chalk from breaking when it hits the ground!"
He proceeded to drop the chalk, but as he did, it! slipped out of his
fingers, off his shirt cuff, onto the pleat of his pants, down his leg,
and off his shoe. As it hit the ground, it simply rolled away unbroken.
The professor's jaw dropped as he stared at the chalk. He looked up at
the young man, and then ran out of the lecture hall.
The young man who had stood, proceeded to walk to the front of the room
and shared his faith in Jesus for the next half hour.
300 students stayed and listened as he told of God's love for them and
of His power through Jesus.
Answers:
That story made my eyes leak!
Thank you KimberlyJoy
Margaret
Answers:
margaret,
quite a powerful story eh? i thought so too!
have a g-nite,
KJ
Answers:
Discussion about this on Snopes.com, where they classify it as a story of indeterminate origin (as opposed to true or false).
Chalk Story
Answers:
Some stories don't have to be PROVED. They STAND on their own, and the believing is left up to you.
I'm standing.
Dove
Answers:
Sorry but can i just say
I wish everyone to realise that there are other religions on this board whoses strong faiths are not in christianity and Jesus.
Allah - Buddha and so on.
I can convinced that if someone posted about Allah there would be a difference in attitude.
Example:
Say this exact same story but Muslim version - not christian version? With Mohammed and not Jesus?????
Reaction?
Be honest now.
Answers:
Paw-
You made a great point.
I think again that this is a very touchy topic which can divide people here. We all saw what happened on the last religious thread. As you mentioned this is a very diverse religious group here.
My personal opinion is that these religious posts may not belong here. That is just my personal opinion. It is also based on my religion which jesus is not a part of.
That is all I am going to say and my last response to any religious threads.
Answers:
Any philosophy professor worth his tenure wouldn't rely on such weak justification to prove his point. Urban legend. If God really exists he'll stop this post from going through.............
Answers:
oops, it went through. What does it all mean?
Answers:
Pminear:
Answers:
I belive everybody has the right to believe in whatever religion that they want to but I thought this was a PSORIASIS Message Board. I think there are sights that would be more appropriate for this type of posting.
Religion is a very touchy subject lets not get into a debate over who's religion is right or wrong --whatever works for you is cool!
Answers:
Hi. While I agree that the topic of religion can be divisive, I would have to disagree that the posts do not belong here. A couple reasons: First, the other post was KJ's legitimate question as to how she addresses her psoriasis versus her beliefs when she is questioned on this, which is definately psoriasis-related. Secondly, for many people, their religion is a source of comfort and may be a tool (not the best word, I know) to help them deal with their psoriasis. Arguably, the topic of religion is more relevant to a psoriasis board than, say a joke or a gripe thread. (And I enjoy both those.)
What I would not support is anyone forcing their views on others, or putting down others' beliefs. I would be the first to endorse deletion of any such posts, whether they were for or against my particular religion. But KJ's post was uplifting in nature, as evidenced by some of the replies she received. And I think that way more good than bad came out of the original post.
To not allow those for whom religion is an important part of their lives to discuss that here comes close to the recent dispute about those who preferred natural remedies feeling left out/attacked.
There is always the option to simply not read a particular thread.
This could go way to far where people could get offended because others are posting in support of their favorite sports teams. (Especially when they happen to be disillusioned, i.e. Yankees fans ;) )
And finally, to answer the question (a good one) that Paw posed regarding a hypothetical story that was posted involving a Muslim figure: As a Christina, I probably wouldnt be able to relate to the story, and I probably would not get much from that post. But, that's OK. I don't need to personally benefit from every post on here. If 100 people read such a post and one drew inspiration or comfort from it, then it has done its job and belongs here.
To close, I can just say to KJ to keep it up; that you are an inspiration to me (and probably others) in many ways.
Robb
ps - Why do my posts always end up so darn long????
Answers:
While I agree with everything you have said RCana religion is not really the question here
Its peoples perceptions and peoples attitudes towards such topics.
By all means have a thread on religion but there was a fracas in the last thread that resulted in a member being hurt and considering leaving the board and a few others being offended.
These lines cannot be blurred.
Answers:
This is a board about psoriasis and not about religion. The focus needs to be on the disease, the treatment, the effects etc. Let's work together to keep it there.
gail
Answers:
Perhaps posts intended to be inspirational in nature which are faith-related, can just be generalized. The thread about how people reconciled their illnesses to their religious beliefs could eaily have been directed to anyone who adheres to a religion since in virtually all cases, people who believe in God believe that God is 'good' so to speak, rather than vindictive.
Answers:
My thoughts are this...I do not care for these religious stories and would just as soon they not be here. They are of no interest to me although I am as much of a Christian as I am able.
However, I would like to point out that they have as much place here as about a quarter of the threads which have nothing to do about P. Spiderman's jokes for one, and just the one that comes to mind. I also have no need for that thread.
So I will not spend much time reading either thread...the only interest that this one stoked was trying to avoid a war here, that is the last thing we need. We get together on the NPF board to share with each other. All of us have different needs and different knowledge.
So please. Ignore the threads that displease you. Let those that are interested read them. Only if you fight the problem do you make it a problem. Peace in whatever you believe. Far be it from us to tell you what to believe.
Z
Answers:
this is a community board is it not. its kinda like howard stern on the radio people will listen to the entire show totaly hating it and calling in to tell him how much they hate it when all they have to do is turn it off. same thing here if you dont like what you are reading then simply click yer mouse. topics like religion certainly are needed on this board - not to stir the pot - but to give people hope in some desperate times. and im sure that a lot of people here have had their fill of those. im pretty sure that HOPE can be translated by ALL religions
Answers:
Why is it always my posts that start this kind of confusion?
Zara: i dont think there is a need for discussion, each individual has their opinion, and thats the way it stays
Dove: Oh Boy! exactly what i was thinking!
Mag: I dont know about others on this board, but i can personally say that i would not be offended. As i have told many ppl... everyone has their own opinions and everyone has a right to say them.
Makeitgoaway: im sorry, but from what i understand, there are no rules as to what we are allowed to post on this board.
pminear: oh! good point (can you hear the sarcasm in my voice?)
TLd317: Personal opinions, everyone has their own. but personally, i dont wanna spend my life worrying about p... i'd rather go to a p message board and be able to talk about anything with fellow sufferers
Ill reply to the rest later, dont have time now
Answers:
I totally agree with Z. Any post that does not interest you can be skipped. It's that easy. Some of us are interested.
I'd also like to comment on Paw's question. You are right in your observation. But, I feel that God is just one word for one religion. It doesn't matter what he's called. You really could substitute your own Deity/Almighty/Great White Father/Buddha/Allah ( and forgive me, they don't have to be in that order) or whatever you want to call him/her and I would not take offense. It's the belief, not what you believe that is important to me.
And it absolutely does help me get through each day, no matter what I have to face. So, it's as much a part of life as my Psoriasis. I'm not asking anyone to believe as I do. In the same way, don't tell me I can't say it. Go on to another thread if this one distresses you.
I use to put God Bless at the end of my messages. I quit so I wouldn't offend. I feel like we have to walk on egg shells lately. Offense is taken where none is meant. PLEASE, can we agree not to agree and just skip what we don't want to read?????
Dove cares.
Answers:
Dove, I'll second that. Personally, I avoid some of the obviously more depressing threads, because that is a place I had visited not that long ago and I try to stay away from there now. I found that my mood could be influenced by what I read, i.e. how bad things might get, and we all know what a negative frame of mind can do to us! So, if I see a thread titled "Nightmare" or some such thing, I happily skip it by.
Someone said the board should ONLY be about psoriasis. To me, that's giving this damn thing too much credit, and could result in a much darker place. Personally, I have enjoyed those "unrelated" posts that let me know something about the person who wrote it - what type of person they are, how they think, etc. Psoriasis is not the only side of us that we show in our lives, so it shouldn't be all we show here either.
And while I agree that people can have less than ideal attitudes towards the touchier topics in life such as religion, where we have many people coming from different directions, I have in my few months reading this board seen conflicts arise from many different types of posts. Some of these would be considered harmless topics, such as my flip remark about the Yankees earlier. (Thanks to the Red Sox for giving it a little more oomph tonight, anyway!) I've also seen people ready to leave because of psoriasis-related posts/threads. In short, you never know what could offend anyone, you can just try your best not to and hope for the best. To me, that makes this board more like real life than many that I've seen and the interesting people here - and not necesarily any facts I can get regarding my disease - are what makes me come back.
Robb
Answers:
KJ: "Zara: i dont think there is a need for discussion, each individual has their opinion, and thats the way it stays"
I honestly could not understand your response to my comment.
I was merely suggesting that ecumenism would be a peaceful approach to any discussion involving religion on this board. Substituting 'God' for 'Christ' in a post doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me. And in the spirit of the Holy Trinity, why should it be?
I actually thought it was what Lahdove meant when she said:
"But, I feel that God is just one word for one religion. It doesn't matter what he's called. You really could substitute your own Deity/Almighty/Great White Father/Buddha/Allah ( and forgive me, they don't have to be in that order) or whatever you want to call him/her and I would not take offense. It's the belief, not what you believe that is important to me."
Answers:
There has been confusion I believe about my earlier post.
Let me please clear this up.
I am not offended by this thread. Neither am I against this thread.
Who I am to say what should be posted - when and where. No right.
However - Some threads can launch into something that can be offensive.
I would love people who may find something offensive to ignore it but that is not human nature.
All i was trying to do was to stop something from developing and as a direct result have been roasted.
I have also receieved excellent PM's also. So no one should worry about who i am referring to here.
Everyone has an opinion. Thats cool.
Dont worry - I shall not leave the board on the basis of this and i believe no one else should.
I agree with Zwijndrecht - I would rather this type of thread not happen in the first place.
Kimberlyjoy - my lovely this is not anything to do with you whatsoever. I am glad that you have such a strong faith and indeed i commend you wholeheartedly. Keep the faith.
Now as Steve has said - I shall refrain from commenting on other threads of this nature.
This is all
Peace and Love
Paw xxx
And remember what is conveyed talking may convey a totally different meaning when reading.
Answers:
When i first started reading this site what took my interest was reading all about different things everyone tryed,this is what is interesting now this is my opinion,,,all these other threads are wasting time,why because you read the thread think it's about something else than you have to go back again and start all over,now they're starting to get out of hand,,,it's beginning to feel like a childrens site,now jokes are threads,religion is starting cmon really let's stay with what we are here for,,,,,,P,,,,,,,if i want to read jokes and other non related threads i'd be in another site.Remember this a Psoriasis site....again there are teen and children ,,,p,,, site,,,do your jokes on theat site i'm sure the kids would enjoy this,,,,,,this is really getting way out of touch!!!!!
and believe me i believe in GOD.
Answers:
ARL
I agree with your point
However - I feel it unfair to open up the whole as P related - but agree 100% that jokes have been dominating the board.
But I have been thinking recently that for a new member joining - maybe the image of this board is that it is little P related at all and more jokes
And I fear that many Question about P threads are falling by the wayside. In favour of this type of thread.
HOWEVER!
Please dont give me a roasting - I am not the most clued up member here!!!!!! :D
Just my thoughts really.
1 2