Question:
I've only just noticed this.
I was watching Starship Troopers tonight (original R1 SE 1 disc) and started to notice that objects which should be virtically straight (window frames etc) were actually bending at the top of the screen.
When I switched to 4:3 to check if it was a geometry fault I found that the actual transfer has 2 divits on both sides at the top of the screen which is whats creating the bending. I checked Mallrats CE R1 and thats the same.
I don't know how many dvds have this problem but its bloody annoying once you notice it.
its not the DVD, its your TV.
i think its a similar affect when you put magnetic objects near your computer monitor, but in your case it is the earth's natural magnetic field.
Originally posted by KeyserSoze
its not the DVD, its your TV.
i think its a similar affect when you put magnetic objects near your computer monitor, but in your case it is the earth's natural magnetic field.
It cant be because its selective and the bending is different to your typical geometry WS issues, plus I've noticed it on 2 different WS sets.
The magnet thing can make the picture go funny it can also make the top of the picture look purple too, it may be the magnets in your front speaker if you have it directly on top id try moving it. i had my speakers to close to the sides of the TV and i had a similar thing towards the sides. although it may be something else....
I used to get the purple patches on TV and fixed it by knocking down the Contrast and boosting brightness - picture looked the same but the patches are 99% gone now! ;)
All my speakers are fully shielded.
But this does not appear to be a geometry issue because its subjective to individual transfers.
I get this on my DVD setup, whereby anthing which is vertical, such as a lampost, 'bends' but I also get this affect on my other tv on my sky setup.
I was thinking maybe it had something to do with letterboxing on a 4:3 set?
Thats sounds like a standard geometry issue rhys.
What I found on the Starship Troopers were more like this -
http://members.tripod.co.uk/Jimmy0boy/sw.jpg
It obviously not a perfect example and the screen grab is from the wrong film but it should give some idea what I mean.
Note the 2 black bits at the left and right, you can only see them when you set the TV back to 4:3 as their usually off screen when it WS mode. Any information inline with these 2 black dents bend drastically to the left and to the right, IE- the left side of the screen bends left and the right side bends right.
As I said before, I've noticed this on this particular transfer and theres probably others like it as well. It could be a fault with my set up but then I'd imagine it would be there all the time on all transfers and TV images.
Macrovision caused this on my old TV, but only on NTSC discs...
Wierd!,
So far I've noted it on Starship Troopers SE 1-disc, Mallrats CE R1, & Buffy S1 R1 (but only on certain episodes and its 4:3 so it should be noticeable straight away).
All are 100% legit original R1 releases.
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
Thats sounds like a standard geometry issue rhys.
What I found on the Starship Troopers were more like this -
http://members.tripod.co.uk/Jimmy0boy/sw.jpg
It obviously not a perfect example and the screen grab is from the wrong film but it should give some idea what I mean.
Note the 2 black bits at the left and right, you can only see them when you set the TV back to 4:3 as their usually off screen when it WS mode. Any information inline with these 2 black dents bend drastically to the left and to the right, IE- the left side of the screen bends left and the right side bends right.
As I said before, I've noticed this on this particular transfer and theres probably others like it as well. It could be a fault with my set up but then I'd imagine it would be there all the time on all transfers and TV images. Its not the transfer, my bedroom DVD setup is PC based(its a computer, hifi and tv all in one effectively;)), and so no overscan, and the transfer for the original R1 Starship Troopers is a perfect rectangle.
I get this on some films too, but it happens on both my dvd players and on two different tv's :confused:
..it's macrovision I tellya!
Originally posted by AndyWilson
..it's macrovision I tellya!
...I tend to agree with this assumption:thumbs:
Hmmm, it seems most of my NTSC dvds which are filmed in an aspect ratio of 1.85:1 are suffering from this problem.
It doesnt seem to affect PAL. The dvd player doesnt pass through a VCR or anything else for that matter so how can it be macrovision ?.
Got me well baffled. :confused:
It is macrovision I'm afraid, had this prob years ago with my R1 player and Sony TV
Try a 2.35:1 movie, no probs right?
Any NTSC DVD that has macrovision encoded on it will display these problems, ifyou have an MGM disc (the old ones anyway) notice how they are fine
Also a HK disc you'll have which is anamorphic say Shaolin Soccer will also be fine I'll bet because of no macrovision encoding
Try the above, let me know
So why is macrovision kicking in on original official dvds ?.
Note that the rest of the screen is perfectly fine, only information between these 2 black dents are effected.
At a guess I think it's a timing issue. Macrovision, to put it simply, buggers up the frame sync pulses. Normally a TV isn't affected by this, but as European TVs are primarily 50hz, with 60Hz NTSC processing a secondary function, I guess the combination of non-standard frequency and buggered sync pulses causes a wobbly bit while the TV tries to decide what signal it's receiving...
..note this is pure speculation, but seems to fit the observed facts i.e. PAL50 with or without MV = OK, NTSC without MV = OK, NTSC + MV = not ok!
I don't believe its limited to just R1 DVDs because it happened on my R2 LA Confidential DVD today (and was quite bad).
That's just bizarre given that a) it's PAL and b) that movie is in 2.35:1 widescreen ratio, and those aren't affected
why not get one of those macrovision striping scart leads, see if that does the job? Luckily my player is macrovision free by virtue of the multiregion mod and I've never noticed anything like this.
Just checked R1 Toy Story 2 and 'the bends' occurs on the first menu screen, advertising other Disney films.
The bends seem to only occur at about 20% from the right hand side of the screen??:confused:
Rhys - I think what your describing is a geometry issue.
The problem that I've got only seems to affect NTSC 4:3 & 1.85:1 WS dvds. If I set my dvd player to convert the NTSC source into PAL the problem goes away, and dvds without macrovision don't seem to suffer from the problem.
Like RichB and others have said it appears to be something to do with NTSC and the macrovision protection causing the problem.
I think I'll try somekind of macrovision stripping device at some point.
I bought my first widecsreen TV a couple of years ago and it was a Toshiba.
The top of the screen whether it was DVD or TV programme had the top inch of the screen bending to the left on straight objects. Definitely a geometry thing as an engineer fiddled with the service menu and moved the bend left and right. It does affect different widecsreen settings differently.
I put on the R1 of Star Trek IV and went to the part where spock and kirk are in front of boats and the masts were bent to the left and right rather than straight up. I looked very odd.
I changed it for a Sony IDTV and it has been perfect (although it was another £300).
nwgarrat, we already know you look very odd
but whats that got to do with it? :p :D
Oops, That was supposed to be it looked very odd. :)
Remember there's also film camera lense distortion which can make vertical objects look curved. This is most noticable in the final fight scene of The Phantom Menace, when Obiwan stands in front of the force field corridor - you'll notice that the sides of the corridor look curved, as they're on the extreme edges of the screen and are affected by the lense distortion.
The only time I've noticed this was with the original R1 release of Total Recall. Roof beams and walls that were at the very top of the picture were went slightly. Didn't notice this effect in the SE re-release, so assumed it was just the transfer.
I was watching Starship Troopers tonight (original R1 SE 1 disc) and started to notice that objects which should be virtically straight (window frames etc) were actually bending at the top of the screen.
When I switched to 4:3 to check if it was a geometry fault I found that the actual transfer has 2 divits on both sides at the top of the screen which is whats creating the bending. I checked Mallrats CE R1 and thats the same.
I don't know how many dvds have this problem but its bloody annoying once you notice it.
Answers:
its not the DVD, its your TV.
i think its a similar affect when you put magnetic objects near your computer monitor, but in your case it is the earth's natural magnetic field.
Answers:
Originally posted by KeyserSoze
its not the DVD, its your TV.
i think its a similar affect when you put magnetic objects near your computer monitor, but in your case it is the earth's natural magnetic field.
It cant be because its selective and the bending is different to your typical geometry WS issues, plus I've noticed it on 2 different WS sets.
Answers:
The magnet thing can make the picture go funny it can also make the top of the picture look purple too, it may be the magnets in your front speaker if you have it directly on top id try moving it. i had my speakers to close to the sides of the TV and i had a similar thing towards the sides. although it may be something else....
Answers:
I used to get the purple patches on TV and fixed it by knocking down the Contrast and boosting brightness - picture looked the same but the patches are 99% gone now! ;)
Answers:
All my speakers are fully shielded.
But this does not appear to be a geometry issue because its subjective to individual transfers.
Answers:
I get this on my DVD setup, whereby anthing which is vertical, such as a lampost, 'bends' but I also get this affect on my other tv on my sky setup.
I was thinking maybe it had something to do with letterboxing on a 4:3 set?
Answers:
Thats sounds like a standard geometry issue rhys.
What I found on the Starship Troopers were more like this -
http://members.tripod.co.uk/Jimmy0boy/sw.jpg
It obviously not a perfect example and the screen grab is from the wrong film but it should give some idea what I mean.
Note the 2 black bits at the left and right, you can only see them when you set the TV back to 4:3 as their usually off screen when it WS mode. Any information inline with these 2 black dents bend drastically to the left and to the right, IE- the left side of the screen bends left and the right side bends right.
As I said before, I've noticed this on this particular transfer and theres probably others like it as well. It could be a fault with my set up but then I'd imagine it would be there all the time on all transfers and TV images.
Answers:
Macrovision caused this on my old TV, but only on NTSC discs...
Answers:
Wierd!,
So far I've noted it on Starship Troopers SE 1-disc, Mallrats CE R1, & Buffy S1 R1 (but only on certain episodes and its 4:3 so it should be noticeable straight away).
All are 100% legit original R1 releases.
Answers:
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
Thats sounds like a standard geometry issue rhys.
What I found on the Starship Troopers were more like this -
http://members.tripod.co.uk/Jimmy0boy/sw.jpg
It obviously not a perfect example and the screen grab is from the wrong film but it should give some idea what I mean.
Note the 2 black bits at the left and right, you can only see them when you set the TV back to 4:3 as their usually off screen when it WS mode. Any information inline with these 2 black dents bend drastically to the left and to the right, IE- the left side of the screen bends left and the right side bends right.
As I said before, I've noticed this on this particular transfer and theres probably others like it as well. It could be a fault with my set up but then I'd imagine it would be there all the time on all transfers and TV images. Its not the transfer, my bedroom DVD setup is PC based(its a computer, hifi and tv all in one effectively;)), and so no overscan, and the transfer for the original R1 Starship Troopers is a perfect rectangle.
Answers:
I get this on some films too, but it happens on both my dvd players and on two different tv's :confused:
Answers:
..it's macrovision I tellya!
Answers:
Originally posted by AndyWilson
..it's macrovision I tellya!
...I tend to agree with this assumption:thumbs:
Answers:
Hmmm, it seems most of my NTSC dvds which are filmed in an aspect ratio of 1.85:1 are suffering from this problem.
It doesnt seem to affect PAL. The dvd player doesnt pass through a VCR or anything else for that matter so how can it be macrovision ?.
Got me well baffled. :confused:
Answers:
It is macrovision I'm afraid, had this prob years ago with my R1 player and Sony TV
Try a 2.35:1 movie, no probs right?
Any NTSC DVD that has macrovision encoded on it will display these problems, ifyou have an MGM disc (the old ones anyway) notice how they are fine
Also a HK disc you'll have which is anamorphic say Shaolin Soccer will also be fine I'll bet because of no macrovision encoding
Try the above, let me know
Answers:
So why is macrovision kicking in on original official dvds ?.
Note that the rest of the screen is perfectly fine, only information between these 2 black dents are effected.
Answers:
At a guess I think it's a timing issue. Macrovision, to put it simply, buggers up the frame sync pulses. Normally a TV isn't affected by this, but as European TVs are primarily 50hz, with 60Hz NTSC processing a secondary function, I guess the combination of non-standard frequency and buggered sync pulses causes a wobbly bit while the TV tries to decide what signal it's receiving...
..note this is pure speculation, but seems to fit the observed facts i.e. PAL50 with or without MV = OK, NTSC without MV = OK, NTSC + MV = not ok!
Answers:
I don't believe its limited to just R1 DVDs because it happened on my R2 LA Confidential DVD today (and was quite bad).
Answers:
That's just bizarre given that a) it's PAL and b) that movie is in 2.35:1 widescreen ratio, and those aren't affected
Answers:
why not get one of those macrovision striping scart leads, see if that does the job? Luckily my player is macrovision free by virtue of the multiregion mod and I've never noticed anything like this.
Answers:
Just checked R1 Toy Story 2 and 'the bends' occurs on the first menu screen, advertising other Disney films.
The bends seem to only occur at about 20% from the right hand side of the screen??:confused:
Answers:
Rhys - I think what your describing is a geometry issue.
The problem that I've got only seems to affect NTSC 4:3 & 1.85:1 WS dvds. If I set my dvd player to convert the NTSC source into PAL the problem goes away, and dvds without macrovision don't seem to suffer from the problem.
Like RichB and others have said it appears to be something to do with NTSC and the macrovision protection causing the problem.
I think I'll try somekind of macrovision stripping device at some point.
Answers:
I bought my first widecsreen TV a couple of years ago and it was a Toshiba.
The top of the screen whether it was DVD or TV programme had the top inch of the screen bending to the left on straight objects. Definitely a geometry thing as an engineer fiddled with the service menu and moved the bend left and right. It does affect different widecsreen settings differently.
I put on the R1 of Star Trek IV and went to the part where spock and kirk are in front of boats and the masts were bent to the left and right rather than straight up. I looked very odd.
I changed it for a Sony IDTV and it has been perfect (although it was another £300).
Answers:
nwgarrat, we already know you look very odd
but whats that got to do with it? :p :D
Answers:
Oops, That was supposed to be it looked very odd. :)
Answers:
Remember there's also film camera lense distortion which can make vertical objects look curved. This is most noticable in the final fight scene of The Phantom Menace, when Obiwan stands in front of the force field corridor - you'll notice that the sides of the corridor look curved, as they're on the extreme edges of the screen and are affected by the lense distortion.
Answers:
The only time I've noticed this was with the original R1 release of Total Recall. Roof beams and walls that were at the very top of the picture were went slightly. Didn't notice this effect in the SE re-release, so assumed it was just the transfer.
1 2