Question:
Now, as you can tell by my review (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=1064&story=3645), Ocean's 11 is a very decent and enjoyable flick, but now that Soderbergh is remaking Solaris as well, again with Clooney, does anyone else think the director is pandering to the mainstream and his A-list status too much?
When compared with Traffic (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=862&story=3274) or Sex, Lies & Videotape (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=1017&story=3539), the director seems to be losing his edge.
So...predictably...what's your fave Soderbergh film?
NB: Third post reserved for Jimmyboy ;)
Being as he’s announced a sequel to Ocean’s 11 you may well have a point.
Clooney & Soderbergh - Not exactly Scorsese and DeNiro is it?
Yes he is pandering to the mainstream, but I can't blame him and i'm not too fussed either way. Maybe he'll slip in another Limey between two box-office gold's along the way, I don't know, but he did make a highly enjoyable, and rewatchable film in Ocean's Eleven and I hope he continues.
It remains to be seen, I think. Depending on how close he sticks to the original, Solaris may not be multiplex filling material. But then, looking back through his career, many of his films have actually been pretty mainstream if somewhat leftfield. I've also found that his films don't always stand up too well to repeated viewings, and the original C4 version of Traffik was, to my eyes, better than the remake.
Solaris is hardly mainstream, even watching the original can tell you that, from the script reviews that pop up on all the usual websites, they say it's very daring for a hollywood film.
Originally posted by Raphph
So...predictably...what's your fave Soderbergh film?
Sex, Lies & Videotape is my favourite
Traffic runs a very close second
Fave is Out Of Sight , another cool David Holmes soundtrack and a film in which Jennifer Lopez is good...
Why shouldn't Soderbergh make a 'fun' flick every now and again?
He's just made the low budget indie 'Full Frontal' and 'Solaris' is about as far from a Hollywood Sci fi blockbuster as you can get.
Infact i can almost gaurantee when it's released they will be many, many Solaris is the best/worst film ever posts.
Also don't forget Scorsese also made 'Cape Fear' a big budget remake for a studio.
...also don't forget Scorsese made "New York, New York" - with De Niro, no less ... just the other day finally watched the 4-disc, 2 hrs. 47 mins. MGM (...Narshty please take note: MGM, not CRITERION!...) laserdisc Collector's Edition featuring the "Original Uncut Version with Director's Commentary" - believe me, it's a pain to sit through (and not just in the Gesitz, either!)... and it's certainly 'Big Budget' and it's incredibly boring and...
...wanders off into the distance, muttering to himself...
. . . :zzz: . . .
I don't think he panders to mainstream at all. Sure O11 was prolly his biggest 'blockbuster' type movie and a seuel would be great but i think he strikes a happy balance between mainstream (O11, Traffic) and Indie (Limey, OOS).
'Full Frontal' looks like he's going back to his roots a bit and experimenting and 'Solaris' i'm really not too sure about. Could be grand on an epic proportion or a very understated type of sci-fi movie.
Either way he's swimming in the pool of diversity and i like that in a director.
Would love to see him make a horror flick just to see what he would do with the characters.
Traffic is a terrible film ... its good for boring people senseless though! For some reason I enjoyed it first time around and recommended it to everyone at the video shop ... very few liked it.
Oceans 11 on the other hand was a good film :clap:
surely the only thing 'mainstream' about solaris is that it has clooney in it. i don't know much about the original but from what i gather it isn't very 'hollywood' and if he has to put a big star, who he happens to be friends with and enjoys working with, in his film to get it made in hollywood what's the problem. i mean it's not like he put arnie in it or anything, though if it was miramax then it would probably have ben affleck and matt damon. they put them in a bunch of movies.
The Limey is my favourite Soderbergh film. Followed very closely by Traffic, which I find to be extremely engaging.
Solaris, another film that didnt need to be remade :oh-hum:
Not really enjoyed a Soderbergh to a huge level, apart from The Limey :notworthy
"Solaris, another film that didnt need to be remade..."
...well... it's not really a 'remake' of a movie... Tarkovsky's SOLARIS was based on Lem's NOVEL (however closely or distantly is debatable)... Soderbergh is also basing his movie on the NOVEL, not on the Russian film...
...just so there have been numerous film versions (at least 3 French, at least 1 Italian, afaik 3 American) of the NOVEL "Les Misérables" (and I'm not counting the - originally French - musical, affectionately known in the English-speaking world as "Les Miz") ... just as there have been two film versions (one French, one American) of the NOVEL "Les Diaboliques" ... just as there have been at least two film versions (one British, one American) of the NOVEL "Great Expectations"... just as there have been (at least?) three film versions (one Italian, titled "Ossessione", two American) of the NOVEL "The Postman Always Rings Twice"... and so on and on ad infinitum...
. . . :smokin: . . .
Originally posted by Hendrik
"Solaris, another film that didnt need to be remade..."
...well... it's not really a 'remake' of a movie... Tarkovsky's SOLARIS was based on Lem's NOVEL (however closely or distantly is debatable)... Soderbergh is also basing his movie on the NOVEL, not on the Russian film...
...just so there have been numerous film versions (at least 3 French, at least 1 Italian, afaik 3 American) of the NOVEL "Les Misérables" (and I'm not counting the - originally French - musical, affectionately known in the English-speaking world as "Les Miz") ... just as there have been two film versions (one French, one American) of the NOVEL "Les Diaboliques" ... just as there have been at least two film versions (one British, one American) of the NOVEL "Great Expectations"... just as there have been (at least?) three film versions (one Italian, titled "Ossessione", two American) of the NOVEL "The Postman Always Rings Twice"... and so on and on ad infinitum...
. . . :smokin: . . .
Intresting, may be worth checking out then :)
As for the rest of your post, whats your point ;)
"The Limey" is a wonderful film.
Oh, and it's nice to see that I'm apparently alone in thinking "New York New York" is one of Scorsese's best films.
I don't see why we should dictate what a Director should and shouldn't make, just because he's talented doesn't mean he should only be making 'deep' films.
Gary A
Originally posted by Mike
Oh, and it's nice to see that I'm apparently alone in thinking "New York New York" is one of Scorsese's best films.
No you're not. Though it's been a while since I saw the film, it was in the full-length version at the NFT.
I've liked most of Soderbergh's work so far, and I'll soon be revisiting at least one of the ones I was cool about first time round, namely <i>Kafka</i>.
I suspect I wasn't in the right mood for <i>King of the Hill</i> when I saw it - a well made and acted film that didn't connect with me. Any word of a DVD release?
I won't prejudge <i>Full Frontal</i> until I see it, though I know that most of the reviews have been negative. <i>Solaris</i> I am looking forward to, not least because it will be interesting to see (basically) the same story told via two entirely different styles and narrative methods - namely the European art movie that Tarkovsky made, and somewhere rather closer to mainstream Hollywood.
Oh and George Clooney does his first nude scene...
:)
"...Oh and George Clooney does his first nude scene..."
...one can hardly wait to see that, can one...?...
(...this tidbit of stunning news, if true, is proof positive that Soderbergh's version will not resemble Tarkovsky's in this one respect at least...)
. . . :zzz: . . .
I don't think he's wasted anything, so far. Oceans 11 may have been a big, silly pudding of a movie, but at least it was extremely entertaining. What's wrong with 'pandering to the mainstream'? What does that even mean? Has anyone here even seen Sullivan's Travels?
Soderbergh and (I think) Clooney have both been eager to step into territory that other high profile stars and directors would shy away from. Can you imagine Tom Hanks making a film like Three Kings? Or Ron Howard attempting something as broad and ambiguous as Traffic? The scale (I'm assuming) and the very nature of Solaris mean that it's far from a sure winner for either of them. I can't wait for it, or Full Frontal.
I tend to agree with the above view. Clooney has chosen some very interesting projects during his career and his influence seems to have been, broadly at least, a positive one on the blockbusters he's appeared in. Even a relatively minor, if underrated, film like "The Perfect Storm" managed to pull off an ending which has to be one of the most determinedly downbeat in the history of the summer event movie.
Now, as you can tell by my review, Ocean's 11 is a very decent and enjoyable flick, but now that Soderbergh is remaking Solaris as well, again with Clooney, does anyone else think the director is pandering to the mainstream and his A-list status too much?
What's wrong with mainstream pictures? If it's good, it's irrelevant what label it goes under.
like all his films, but Traffic, to me, is a ground breaking masterpiec,e my fav definitely...
i like King of the Hill the most, although i think The Limey is his best film. Oceans 11 was crap
Loads of directors (think Arronofsky, Fincher, etc) get discussed on here in relation to their claim to greatness, etc. Out of all of them, Soderbergh is unique in that he has yet to make a great film. He's lauded for being 'fun' and 'efficient', like that's all there is to it. If I had £1 for every reference all-over-the-bloody-place about how much 'fun' Ocean's 11 was to make, I'd buy a Criterion Salo for each of you. My god, Goebbels never managed anything like it in his life!
Originally posted by wong fei hong
Or Ron Howard attempting something as broad and ambiguous as Traffic?
Before he forgot the punchline to his own joke, Howard knocked off a few films that Soderbergh, if he had made them today, would have won forty Oscars for! Cocoon, as one example.
I think 'Out of Sight' and 'The Limey' are far better than anything Aronofsky or Fincher have done, but I can do without the films Soderberg has made since - 'Traffic' is astonishingly banal (if that's not an oxymoron), the other two are passably entertaining.
Perhaps it's the writing of Scott Frank and Lem Dobbs I like more ('Kafka' is a very interesting mess, and also scribbled by Dobbs)
Originally posted by McD
Loads of directors (think Arronofsky, Fincher, etc) get discussed on here in relation to their claim to greatness, etc. Out of all of them, Soderbergh is unique in that he has yet to make a great film.
Actually, I think Soderbergh made a rare achievement in directing five successive films that are great: Schizopolis, Out of Sight, The Limey, Erin Brockovich and Traffic. All inventive, thoughtful, engaging films.
And Cocoon, McD? Really? :eek:
I've enjoyed ALL Soderbergh films, least of them Erin Brockovich, not because of the wonderful acting but the character of Erin, whom I'd gratefully enjoy whacking around with a bat.
That said, best 3 are the first, Sex, Lies, the middle, The Limey, and the latest, Full Frontal. These are cream of the crop. I know most of you still haven't seen that last one but you're gona like it if you love "indie" and "edgy" kind of Soderbergh.
Can't wait for Solaris, for numerous reasons.
My favourites of his are Out of Sight and The Limey, but personally I don't care whether a film is 'mainstream' or not, if I enjoy it, I enjoy it!
More votes here for The Limey and Traffic. And as for Oceans 11 it was pap. Very slick pap, but pap nonetheless.
traffic perhaps best represented the two facets of his ability, if you are to assume the duality of indie/mainstream filmmaking, but again, with the exception of high class popcorn fodder like out of sight/ oceans 11 all of his work retains a high degree of invention and intellect irrespective of how much push it's getting from the studios. the limey was indeed fantastic.
When compared with Traffic (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=862&story=3274) or Sex, Lies & Videotape (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=1017&story=3539), the director seems to be losing his edge.
So...predictably...what's your fave Soderbergh film?
NB: Third post reserved for Jimmyboy ;)
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Being as he’s announced a sequel to Ocean’s 11 you may well have a point.
Clooney & Soderbergh - Not exactly Scorsese and DeNiro is it?
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Yes he is pandering to the mainstream, but I can't blame him and i'm not too fussed either way. Maybe he'll slip in another Limey between two box-office gold's along the way, I don't know, but he did make a highly enjoyable, and rewatchable film in Ocean's Eleven and I hope he continues.
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It remains to be seen, I think. Depending on how close he sticks to the original, Solaris may not be multiplex filling material. But then, looking back through his career, many of his films have actually been pretty mainstream if somewhat leftfield. I've also found that his films don't always stand up too well to repeated viewings, and the original C4 version of Traffik was, to my eyes, better than the remake.
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Solaris is hardly mainstream, even watching the original can tell you that, from the script reviews that pop up on all the usual websites, they say it's very daring for a hollywood film.
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Originally posted by Raphph
So...predictably...what's your fave Soderbergh film?
Sex, Lies & Videotape is my favourite
Traffic runs a very close second
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Fave is Out Of Sight , another cool David Holmes soundtrack and a film in which Jennifer Lopez is good...
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Why shouldn't Soderbergh make a 'fun' flick every now and again?
He's just made the low budget indie 'Full Frontal' and 'Solaris' is about as far from a Hollywood Sci fi blockbuster as you can get.
Infact i can almost gaurantee when it's released they will be many, many Solaris is the best/worst film ever posts.
Also don't forget Scorsese also made 'Cape Fear' a big budget remake for a studio.
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...also don't forget Scorsese made "New York, New York" - with De Niro, no less ... just the other day finally watched the 4-disc, 2 hrs. 47 mins. MGM (...Narshty please take note: MGM, not CRITERION!...) laserdisc Collector's Edition featuring the "Original Uncut Version with Director's Commentary" - believe me, it's a pain to sit through (and not just in the Gesitz, either!)... and it's certainly 'Big Budget' and it's incredibly boring and...
...wanders off into the distance, muttering to himself...
. . . :zzz: . . .
Answers:
I don't think he panders to mainstream at all. Sure O11 was prolly his biggest 'blockbuster' type movie and a seuel would be great but i think he strikes a happy balance between mainstream (O11, Traffic) and Indie (Limey, OOS).
'Full Frontal' looks like he's going back to his roots a bit and experimenting and 'Solaris' i'm really not too sure about. Could be grand on an epic proportion or a very understated type of sci-fi movie.
Either way he's swimming in the pool of diversity and i like that in a director.
Would love to see him make a horror flick just to see what he would do with the characters.
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Traffic is a terrible film ... its good for boring people senseless though! For some reason I enjoyed it first time around and recommended it to everyone at the video shop ... very few liked it.
Oceans 11 on the other hand was a good film :clap:
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surely the only thing 'mainstream' about solaris is that it has clooney in it. i don't know much about the original but from what i gather it isn't very 'hollywood' and if he has to put a big star, who he happens to be friends with and enjoys working with, in his film to get it made in hollywood what's the problem. i mean it's not like he put arnie in it or anything, though if it was miramax then it would probably have ben affleck and matt damon. they put them in a bunch of movies.
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The Limey is my favourite Soderbergh film. Followed very closely by Traffic, which I find to be extremely engaging.
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Solaris, another film that didnt need to be remade :oh-hum:
Not really enjoyed a Soderbergh to a huge level, apart from The Limey :notworthy
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"Solaris, another film that didnt need to be remade..."
...well... it's not really a 'remake' of a movie... Tarkovsky's SOLARIS was based on Lem's NOVEL (however closely or distantly is debatable)... Soderbergh is also basing his movie on the NOVEL, not on the Russian film...
...just so there have been numerous film versions (at least 3 French, at least 1 Italian, afaik 3 American) of the NOVEL "Les Misérables" (and I'm not counting the - originally French - musical, affectionately known in the English-speaking world as "Les Miz") ... just as there have been two film versions (one French, one American) of the NOVEL "Les Diaboliques" ... just as there have been at least two film versions (one British, one American) of the NOVEL "Great Expectations"... just as there have been (at least?) three film versions (one Italian, titled "Ossessione", two American) of the NOVEL "The Postman Always Rings Twice"... and so on and on ad infinitum...
. . . :smokin: . . .
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Originally posted by Hendrik
"Solaris, another film that didnt need to be remade..."
...well... it's not really a 'remake' of a movie... Tarkovsky's SOLARIS was based on Lem's NOVEL (however closely or distantly is debatable)... Soderbergh is also basing his movie on the NOVEL, not on the Russian film...
...just so there have been numerous film versions (at least 3 French, at least 1 Italian, afaik 3 American) of the NOVEL "Les Misérables" (and I'm not counting the - originally French - musical, affectionately known in the English-speaking world as "Les Miz") ... just as there have been two film versions (one French, one American) of the NOVEL "Les Diaboliques" ... just as there have been at least two film versions (one British, one American) of the NOVEL "Great Expectations"... just as there have been (at least?) three film versions (one Italian, titled "Ossessione", two American) of the NOVEL "The Postman Always Rings Twice"... and so on and on ad infinitum...
. . . :smokin: . . .
Intresting, may be worth checking out then :)
As for the rest of your post, whats your point ;)
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"The Limey" is a wonderful film.
Oh, and it's nice to see that I'm apparently alone in thinking "New York New York" is one of Scorsese's best films.
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I don't see why we should dictate what a Director should and shouldn't make, just because he's talented doesn't mean he should only be making 'deep' films.
Gary A
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Originally posted by Mike
Oh, and it's nice to see that I'm apparently alone in thinking "New York New York" is one of Scorsese's best films.
No you're not. Though it's been a while since I saw the film, it was in the full-length version at the NFT.
I've liked most of Soderbergh's work so far, and I'll soon be revisiting at least one of the ones I was cool about first time round, namely <i>Kafka</i>.
I suspect I wasn't in the right mood for <i>King of the Hill</i> when I saw it - a well made and acted film that didn't connect with me. Any word of a DVD release?
I won't prejudge <i>Full Frontal</i> until I see it, though I know that most of the reviews have been negative. <i>Solaris</i> I am looking forward to, not least because it will be interesting to see (basically) the same story told via two entirely different styles and narrative methods - namely the European art movie that Tarkovsky made, and somewhere rather closer to mainstream Hollywood.
Oh and George Clooney does his first nude scene...
:)
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"...Oh and George Clooney does his first nude scene..."
...one can hardly wait to see that, can one...?...
(...this tidbit of stunning news, if true, is proof positive that Soderbergh's version will not resemble Tarkovsky's in this one respect at least...)
. . . :zzz: . . .
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I don't think he's wasted anything, so far. Oceans 11 may have been a big, silly pudding of a movie, but at least it was extremely entertaining. What's wrong with 'pandering to the mainstream'? What does that even mean? Has anyone here even seen Sullivan's Travels?
Soderbergh and (I think) Clooney have both been eager to step into territory that other high profile stars and directors would shy away from. Can you imagine Tom Hanks making a film like Three Kings? Or Ron Howard attempting something as broad and ambiguous as Traffic? The scale (I'm assuming) and the very nature of Solaris mean that it's far from a sure winner for either of them. I can't wait for it, or Full Frontal.
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I tend to agree with the above view. Clooney has chosen some very interesting projects during his career and his influence seems to have been, broadly at least, a positive one on the blockbusters he's appeared in. Even a relatively minor, if underrated, film like "The Perfect Storm" managed to pull off an ending which has to be one of the most determinedly downbeat in the history of the summer event movie.
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Now, as you can tell by my review, Ocean's 11 is a very decent and enjoyable flick, but now that Soderbergh is remaking Solaris as well, again with Clooney, does anyone else think the director is pandering to the mainstream and his A-list status too much?
What's wrong with mainstream pictures? If it's good, it's irrelevant what label it goes under.
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like all his films, but Traffic, to me, is a ground breaking masterpiec,e my fav definitely...
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i like King of the Hill the most, although i think The Limey is his best film. Oceans 11 was crap
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Loads of directors (think Arronofsky, Fincher, etc) get discussed on here in relation to their claim to greatness, etc. Out of all of them, Soderbergh is unique in that he has yet to make a great film. He's lauded for being 'fun' and 'efficient', like that's all there is to it. If I had £1 for every reference all-over-the-bloody-place about how much 'fun' Ocean's 11 was to make, I'd buy a Criterion Salo for each of you. My god, Goebbels never managed anything like it in his life!
Originally posted by wong fei hong
Or Ron Howard attempting something as broad and ambiguous as Traffic?
Before he forgot the punchline to his own joke, Howard knocked off a few films that Soderbergh, if he had made them today, would have won forty Oscars for! Cocoon, as one example.
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I think 'Out of Sight' and 'The Limey' are far better than anything Aronofsky or Fincher have done, but I can do without the films Soderberg has made since - 'Traffic' is astonishingly banal (if that's not an oxymoron), the other two are passably entertaining.
Perhaps it's the writing of Scott Frank and Lem Dobbs I like more ('Kafka' is a very interesting mess, and also scribbled by Dobbs)
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Originally posted by McD
Loads of directors (think Arronofsky, Fincher, etc) get discussed on here in relation to their claim to greatness, etc. Out of all of them, Soderbergh is unique in that he has yet to make a great film.
Actually, I think Soderbergh made a rare achievement in directing five successive films that are great: Schizopolis, Out of Sight, The Limey, Erin Brockovich and Traffic. All inventive, thoughtful, engaging films.
And Cocoon, McD? Really? :eek:
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I've enjoyed ALL Soderbergh films, least of them Erin Brockovich, not because of the wonderful acting but the character of Erin, whom I'd gratefully enjoy whacking around with a bat.
That said, best 3 are the first, Sex, Lies, the middle, The Limey, and the latest, Full Frontal. These are cream of the crop. I know most of you still haven't seen that last one but you're gona like it if you love "indie" and "edgy" kind of Soderbergh.
Can't wait for Solaris, for numerous reasons.
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My favourites of his are Out of Sight and The Limey, but personally I don't care whether a film is 'mainstream' or not, if I enjoy it, I enjoy it!
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More votes here for The Limey and Traffic. And as for Oceans 11 it was pap. Very slick pap, but pap nonetheless.
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traffic perhaps best represented the two facets of his ability, if you are to assume the duality of indie/mainstream filmmaking, but again, with the exception of high class popcorn fodder like out of sight/ oceans 11 all of his work retains a high degree of invention and intellect irrespective of how much push it's getting from the studios. the limey was indeed fantastic.
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