Question:
Got my 'Battle Royale' 2 disc SE today....its PAL R0 coded. Comes in the same style metal tin as the R2 T2:UE, with the BR logo printed on the front of the tin and a white label stuck on the back listing the Contents/special features.
The first thing you see when you open the tin is a 'BR:SE' Limited (Numbered) Edition Collectors Film Frame Card, the film frame on my card comes from the classroom scene just before the kids collar explodes, let me know if other people out there have a different scene on their film frame.
Inside the tin, the DVDs come in a standard 2 disc amaray case, the cover is just silver with the BR logo printed on the front and film credits on the back...no design, graphics or images...just matches the same style as the tin...shame they did'nt create a nice design for the sleeve.
Inside the amaray case you will find a nice poster art card with the BR survival map on the back with the chapter list (24 chapters). Plus a 4 page b&w leaflet with short biographies of star 'Beat' Takeshi and director Kinji Fukasaku.
Disc labels are 2 colour printed, both with the BR logo, disc 1 red logo on black background, disc 2 reversed colours black logo on red background.
Disc menus are different from previous releases, both discs have same style menus, very basic bland silver menus keeping in same style as the tin/amaray cover. Menus are scored, main menu and chapter selection are slightly animated with framed flashes of film clips like what was used on the previous release DVD menu, could be counted as spoilers for people who have'nt seen the movie before.
Have'nt got around to watching the movie yet to see the new changes, but I did play the beginning to see the swishy new special edition CG titles. Nice new anamorphic picture...much better than the the first release....with DVD player generated subtitles.
Only briefly checked out disc 2, enough to see that it contains virtually all the same extras as the Japanese SE release. Only played a snippet from each documentary/featurette...all subtitled in English obviously LOL. Looks like lots of great extras, can't wait to see them all from beginning to end :clap:
OH wow this sounds great:clap:
I can't wait for Amazon to ship mine :norty:
is there a DTS track on it?
There is no DTS track on the new Tartan 2 disc SE, just a Japanese DD 5.1 track, but for this particular film its no big loss. I also have the Chinese R3 DVD which does have a DTS track, but the R3 version is NTSC non-anamorphic and the image quality is'nt half as good as the new 2 disc SE which has been remastered for image qualty and sound, plus from what I've read, the SE sound effects have been enhanced in places for more impact. The benefits far outweigh the lack of a DTS track. Even the Japanese 2 disc SE did'nt come with a DTS track.
That's a great edition, I'll have to get it, but will keep the R3 release anyway because it is a different version, and in DTS.
Originally posted by Lenny Nero
That's a great edition, I'll have to get it, but will keep the R3 release anyway because it is a different version, and in DTS.
A different version in what way/ Has the new SE been cut?
I can't wait for Amazon to ship mine :norty:
My thoughts exactly. :p
Good on Tartan for releasing a good DVD for once - I know it took three attempts but it's nice that they can do something good for a change.
Bamse - This is the "Special Version" more CGI blood, a new ending and a few extra/extended scenes are included on top of the Theatrical version (apparently ;)).
Originally posted by Madm@tt
Good on Tartan for releasing a good DVD for once - I know it took three attempts but it's nice that they can do something good for a change.
A cynic might say that this was their game-plan all along. How many R2 only people will have bought this movie twice or even 3 times from them? Even Di$ney offer cash-back deals for previous purchasers but no sign of that from cheapskate Tartan.
Thanks Madm@tt, sounds good to me. Who's the cheapest to get it from?
This should rest nicely with my R3.
UPDATE: I just got my confirmation email from Amazon saying mine has been shipped!
Yum. :p
Originally posted by Bamse
Thanks Madm@tt, sounds good to me. Who's the cheapest to get it from?
No-one say a word :mad: :p
Oh, don't worry I've found it. Total Solutions Company have it up for the bargain price of £39.03. I think I'll go for that:p :nuts:
try '*********************'
PLay have it for £24 i think,
"...with DVD player generated subtitles..."
...they are called optional subtitles... the player does not 'generate' anything - it merely 'reads' (and, if wanted/needed) 'calls off' what's recorded on the disc...
(...this is edging up to the No.1 spot on my list of pet peeves ... strange that nobody ever mentions a "player generated" dts soundtrack...)
(signed) Cantankerous Cary
. . . :nono: . . .
Originally posted by Bamse
Thanks Madm@tt, sounds good to me. Who's the cheapest to get it from?
Well, mine has just been shipped by Amazon for the spectacular price of £11.85! :rocker:
There was a pricing error a couple of months ago. :p
gotta love dem pricing errors! should get mine tomorrow too :clap:
Great flick in it's original version anyway.
Is there a website or anything that illustrates exactly what was changed and why?
ta
Richie
Mine has been shipped aswell!:clap: :D
Hunter :)
Hendrik - I did'nt know the official name for different kinds of subtitles....I just used the term DVD player generated just to let people know that the subtitles are not burnt into the movie itself. Does it really matter exactly what terms I used anyway...as long as people get the idea. Plus I'm only going buy what other people have said, I've even seen the term 'player generated subtitles' used when reading DVD reviews on many well known DVD websites.
Originally posted by Hendrik
"...with DVD player generated subtitles..."
...they are called optional subtitles... the player does not 'generate' anything - it merely 'reads' (and, if wanted/needed) 'calls off' what's recorded on the disc...
(...this is edging up to the No.1 spot on my list of pet peeves ... strange that nobody ever mentions a "player generated" dts soundtrack...)
(signed) Cantankerous Cary
. . . :nono: . . .
Enough, you pedantic, UBB-code-abusing, internet-generated old fool!
Originally posted by City Hunter
Mine has been shipped aswell!:clap: :D
Hunter :)
HEy HUNTER :norty:
Amazon has shipped mine (for the fantastic price of £11.85, hehe). Hopefully it'll arrive tomorrow, but if Royal Mail suck as much as they usually do, it might be Tuesday. WildThing -- how did you get yours already? I guess I'm assuming everyone got it from Amazon during that lovely day they made a pricing error!
Bamse: The Special Edition is a version of the film with approximately 100 sound and film edits, to correct a few mistakes and make the violence more violent, sometimes with the aid of CG blood. There is also about 7 minutes of additional scenes.
Hendrik: You pedant! But I know how ot feels when little things can bug you. I personally hate it when people pronounce David Bowie's surname incorrectly. But anyway. I have always called them "player generated subtitles" because they are not a part of the DVD's picture -- they really are put onto the screen by the DVD player. Right? Or am I wrong? Sure, the DVD player reads a stream of information from the disc, but its the player that generates the subtitles on the screen. I always assumed so anyway.
Originally posted by Narshty
Enough, you pedantic, UBB-code-abusing, internet-generated old fool!
:notworthy :thumbs:
just ordered mine from play...looking forward to it...
This sounds excellent, I think this is going to be the next DVD I buy :)
if the player was simply reading a subtitle stream off the disc and displaying it the wouldn't it be an extra picture on top of the image. the player does generate the subtitles, there is simply a data stream that tells it what to 'write'. if the subtitles were 'generated' by the disc then they would look the same on all players, but they don't. the font used is somewhat different on my pc than on my pioneer player hence the player is generating them.
so there:D
Im glad to hear that it has nearly all the extras of the Jap SE (i had that disc and it really did have soooo many extras i never got to watch em all before i flogged it on ebay :norty: )
got mine through the good old amazon pricing blunder also :rocker:
"...but its the player that generates the subtitles on the screen. I always assumed so anyway."
...your assumption is dead wrong my friend... do you really think your player has a built-in cache of fonts in various sizes, thicknesses and colours that include e.g. French accents (à, é, è, ê, î, etc.) , or Russian, Arabic, Hebrew alphabets as well as Chinese and Japanese characters (all of which can be 'called off' at will when you play e.g. the RUSCICO DVD of, say, "STALKER"), or German Umlauts (ä, ö, ü), or diacritical marks such as are used used in Czech or Polish --- not to mention a bunch of very tiny but very clever linguists who do translations on-the-fly as the film unrolls before your astonished eyes...?...
...I ask you...!...
. . . :nono: . . .
Originally posted by Hendrik
...they are called optional subtitles
Player-generated subs aren't always optional though :p
~~stu
Originally posted by Hendrik
"...but its the player that generates the subtitles on the screen. I always assumed so anyway."
...your assumption is dead wrong my friend... do you really think your player has a built-in cache of fonts in various sizes, thicknesses and colours that include e.g. French accents (à, é, è, ê, î, etc.) , or Russian, Arabic, Hebrew alphabets as well as Chinese and Japanese characters (all of which can be 'called off' at will when you play e.g. the RUSCICO DVD of, say, "STALKER"), or German Umlauts (ä, ö, ü), or diacritical marks such as are used used in Czech or Polish --- not to mention a bunch of very tiny but very clever linguists who do translations on-the-fly as the film unrolls before your astonished eyes...?...
...I ask you...!...
. . . :nono: . . .
so why are the subtitles in different fonts on different players if the player has nothing to do with generating the subtitles?
"...if the player was simply reading a subtitle stream off the disc and displaying it the wouldn't it be an extra picture on top of the image..."
...that's exactly what it is - except, I think, the correct term is not "an extra picture on top of the image" but, rather, an overlay...
...depending on which subtitles you call off, on which DVD, released by which company, they will look very different - for instance: generally, pretty tacky on MEI AH discs from HK --- nice and clear on MK2 discs from France (e.g. Truffaut movies) --- yellow English subs on the French DVD of "Drôle de Drame" --- often - where applicable - cursive (for, say, song texts, or voice-overs), and so on...
...so there!...
. . . :smokin: . . .
Originally posted by Hendrik
"...if the player was simply reading a subtitle stream off the disc and displaying it the wouldn't it be an extra picture on top of the image..."
...that's exactly what it is - except, I think, the correct term is not "an extra picture on top of the image" but, rather, an overlay...
...depending on which subtitles you call off, on which DVD, released by which company, they will look very different - for instance: generally, pretty tacky on MEI AH discs from HK --- nice and clear on MK2 discs from France (e.g. Truffaut movies) --- yellow English subs on the French DVD of "Drôle de Drame" --- often - where applicable - cursive (for, say, song texts, or voice-overs), and so on...
...so there!...
. . . :smokin: . . .
no, i'm talking about the same disc being played on different machines and having different fonts. for example when i watched the avenging fist on my pc at work the other day using interactual player the subtitles were in a different font than when i got home and put it in my pioneer 454.
...well... I'm at a loss here... I've never seen a movie played on a computer or PC (I'm a serious movie wacher! ;) )...
...BUT I've seen the same movie giving me the exact same subtitle 'fonts' on both my stand-alone DENON player and my portable PANASONIC player, also on a collegue's son's stand-alone PHILIPS player, and on another collegue's stand-alone JVC player, and on still another collegue's stand-alone THOMPSON player, and on yet another collegue's stand-alone SONY player (all, it should be said, serious movie watchers, or should I say film watchers)...
...the thing I don't understand is why people seem to assume quite naturally that subtitles are 'player generated', when these same people are smart enough to realise that the (DD 5.1, or DTS, or dubbed-into-another-language, etc.) soundtracks are, obviously, not 'player generated'...
. . . :confused: . . .
DVD subtitles are stored in what is called subpicture streams, what this means is that the subtitle characters are not generated, but are actual graphic images that are overlayed over the running video. This allows for endless possibilities such as asian characters or virtually any graphic/picture. They are part of the disc.
Subtitles definitely look different when viewed via a PC, I certainly notice that everytime I'm scanning through a disc for screengrabs.
I don't really see the problem with referring to subtitles as 'Player Generated' - in fact, its a term I quite like and use often myself. They are however a subpicture overlayed on top of the main image, which is why a subtitle track can contain storyboards, or any image you like really. Maybe the output of the subtitle font does have something to do with the player (i'm guessing here), which is why software players on a PC often have quite different looking subtitles (usually much rougher IMO).
Another term I quite often hear used is that of soft and hard subtitles - it took me all of 30-seconds to grasp the meanings of those terms so I really cannot see what the big issue is here. As long as people understand the term (and I suspect 99% of readers on these forums do) I can see no harm in using it.
...ahh... William Shatners Wig ...thank you! ...thank you!! thank you!!!...
. . . :D . . .
SqueakyG - The reason why I got my Battle Royale SE early is because I brought it in a shop which got it in a couple of days early. The only drawback being that it no doubt cost me a few pounds more than buying it online...but seeing on the shelf right there in front of you makes it a bit hard to resist buying it there and then LOL
On another note, about the subtitle issue. I kind of wish I never mentioned it in my original post, it was'nt my intention that it would grow into a debate, I simply just wanted to let people know that they are not 'burnt in' subtitles because I rememeber that one of the complaints about the original DVD release was the bad burnt in subtitles when Tartan decided to use a cinema print for the DVD
No WildThing, the little subtitle debate was good, I learned some stuff about DVD that I didn't know before.
> DVD subtitles are stored in what is called subpicture streams, what this means is that the subtitle characters are not generated, but are actual graphic images that are overlayed over the running video. This allows for endless possibilities such as asian characters or virtually any graphic/picture. They are part of the disc.
This is definately correct as any DVD ripper (naughty naughty :norty: ) will confirm. The subs are stored as bitmap files and are about 4mb in size cos they only store the pixels for the letters and any border. When ripping to a text file for use with vobsub or similar you have to use OCR type software that reads the bitmaps and generates text. It is usually necessary to spell check the text file cos the OCR mixes up l and I as there is somtimes no difference in the bitmap.
When you playback a Divx with a text subtitle file (.srt or .smi) then you truley do get PC generated subs where you can pick the font from any system font and also size and position on screen.
Or so I heard from some bloke down the pub, honest guv :D
P.S. I got got a mail from Amazon too, can't wait :)
Originally posted by SqueakyG
No WildThing, the little subtitle debate was good, I learned some stuff about DVD that I didn't know before.
SqueakyG, love your sig.. .
Well sure the subtitle streams are recorded on the disc, just like data for video and audio tracks, but the player does generate them by displaying it. Some players with build in DTS decoders do "generate" the audio, by transforming it from one form to another. Players do NOT CREATE them but they do Generate them, and it's a perfect use of the word. If there is another meaning to the word "generate", then you're wrong, and don't pull out any dictionaries, dictionaries are written by the people for the people and if the meaning of the word changed, you can't do anything by waving your dictionary in someone's face. Take a look at the F word for a perfect example.
Words are here to serve us and what we mean. End of story.
...they are called optional subtitles... the player does not 'generate' anything - it merely 'reads' (and, if wanted/needed) 'calls off' what's recorded on the disc...
Saucer of milk, table 2! Meeeeoww!!
Chrikey man, take a chill pill - it's just a DVD FFS!
Westy
Originally posted by kanedaa
They are however a subpicture overlayed on top of the main image, which is why a subtitle track can contain storyboards, or any image you like really.
This isn't entirely true actually. IIRC there is a limit of something like four colours (one of which is transparent) for a subtitle overlay, so they are actually quite limited.
Arguement over subtitles = :dork:
Got the DVD today! Here is my mini review:
Picture: I'm a bit disappointed actually. I know nothing about how a DVD picture works, but it has that weird fuzzy look to it... I don't know if that means its sourced from NTSC, or whatever. Just that it's fuzzy and the frames blur into each other. Also, my DVD player seems to stall and glitch at some points... but that's probably my old cheap player.
Extra stuff in the Special Edition: The CG blood is mostly just sprays that look unrealistic but certainly make scenes more violent. The additional scenes are a mixed bag: One scene is *amazing* because it adds a lot of depth to the character of Mitsuko -- in the original version she's just the psycho killer, but there's a very good flashback to her childhood. The basketball scenes are mostly pointless. And unfortunately, the "requiem" scenes tagged on to the end of the film really ruin the ending! The ending sucks now. So overall, I prefer the original version of the film, but I love the Mitsuko flashback.
DVD Extras: Lots of documentary stuff, adding up to about 90 minutes. It's pretty good, but doesn't really say enough. And the subtitles aren't very good on the documentaries -- incomplete and sometimes badly-translated.
Packaging: having a T2-style tin and a frame of the film is cool, but not when it jacks the price up so much. And the film frame I got was kinda lousy... just hands on a laptop keyboard.
Overall: Pretty good if you can find it cheap. In many ways I prefer the original cut though.
the film disk is a DVD-5 (single layer) instead of DVD-9 (dual layer), so the bit-rate is only half what it could be.
Originally posted by niz
the film disk is a DVD-5 (single layer) instead of DVD-9 (dual layer), so the bit-rate is only half what it could be. That isn't indicative of a bad transfer tho'
It only runs around 2 hours with one audio track, so 4.7GB should be more than enough to encode the movie well.
One of my best looking DVD's (and coincidentally my first) is <I>Starship Troopers</i> (r1) albeit DVD-10 (flipper single layer) and that had the 129min movie plus four audio tracks!
Take note that <I>Battle Royale</i> wasn't outstanding quality in the cinema either. I'll be happy with an anamorphic version of the HK r3 transfer. (esp. for £12) :thumbs:
Are these 2 disc sets limited, because the film frames are numbered? I got no. 1920, how many sets are there alltogether?
I have now watched it and some of the extra features and think SqueakyG hit the nail on the head with his comments. The subtitling on the extras is not good. Most of the behind-the-scenes talking between actors and from the director to the actors is missing completely. Usually just the interview type speech from the person to the camera is subtitled which is very fustrating.
I also agree that the new ending is pretty crap but you can just hit the stop button at the "RUN" title frame. The CG blood is ok for the most part execpt for the lighthouse scene.
Overall it was easily worth 11.85 :)
Niz , exactly what I thought after checking out the disk specs.
Why the hell do they do this?? Surely it doesn't cost that much more to produce a DVD-9 and double the bit-rate? - especially considering the RRP of £30...
Gary, I totally agree with you about judging picture quality given a bitrate, but to be honest I thought BR:SE looked pretty ropey, even taking into consideration film stocks, storage conditions or whatever... Isn't this a recent release though - considering some of the wonders that HKL pull off for 20 year old films I would expect a better transfer.
Anybody know if this is the progressive NTSC version?? Wasn't that released on a DVD-5 as well?
Hey, maybe I'm sounding too negative here, afterall my hopes have been built up through reading the forums etc...
Overall I'm still happy with the DVD, especially the packaging/film frame etc... which I think is very well done.
...
(all for £5.97 :eek: ! )
Originally posted by SqueakyG
I personally hate it when people pronounce David Bowie's surname incorrectly.
What, as in:
Spelling: "David Bowie"
Pronounced: "Stoat Mangrove Throat-Wobbler"
Boink!:D
It also gets my gf's goat when I deliberately pronounce it 'diferently' to how she insists [on pain of living burning death torture] it should be pronounced.
Women, eh? :norty:
Originally posted by matt_uk
Niz .........Overall I'm still happy with the DVD, especially the packaging/film frame etc... which I think is very well done.
...
(all for £5.97 :eek: ! )
:shocker: AHHHH!!!! how and where did you get it for this price.
I was so excited about getting this tomorrow, but after all the crap you guys have been saying im scared to shell out 30 £.
Mr Matt, how and where did you get it for this cheap? :eek:
Ages ago Amazon mis priced it and sold it for preorder at £10. I'm guessing he used vouchers to then bring it to a fiver :)
the picture looked good on my player, definitely an improvement on the R3
The first thing you see when you open the tin is a 'BR:SE' Limited (Numbered) Edition Collectors Film Frame Card, the film frame on my card comes from the classroom scene just before the kids collar explodes, let me know if other people out there have a different scene on their film frame.
Inside the tin, the DVDs come in a standard 2 disc amaray case, the cover is just silver with the BR logo printed on the front and film credits on the back...no design, graphics or images...just matches the same style as the tin...shame they did'nt create a nice design for the sleeve.
Inside the amaray case you will find a nice poster art card with the BR survival map on the back with the chapter list (24 chapters). Plus a 4 page b&w leaflet with short biographies of star 'Beat' Takeshi and director Kinji Fukasaku.
Disc labels are 2 colour printed, both with the BR logo, disc 1 red logo on black background, disc 2 reversed colours black logo on red background.
Disc menus are different from previous releases, both discs have same style menus, very basic bland silver menus keeping in same style as the tin/amaray cover. Menus are scored, main menu and chapter selection are slightly animated with framed flashes of film clips like what was used on the previous release DVD menu, could be counted as spoilers for people who have'nt seen the movie before.
Have'nt got around to watching the movie yet to see the new changes, but I did play the beginning to see the swishy new special edition CG titles. Nice new anamorphic picture...much better than the the first release....with DVD player generated subtitles.
Only briefly checked out disc 2, enough to see that it contains virtually all the same extras as the Japanese SE release. Only played a snippet from each documentary/featurette...all subtitled in English obviously LOL. Looks like lots of great extras, can't wait to see them all from beginning to end :clap:
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OH wow this sounds great:clap:
I can't wait for Amazon to ship mine :norty:
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is there a DTS track on it?
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There is no DTS track on the new Tartan 2 disc SE, just a Japanese DD 5.1 track, but for this particular film its no big loss. I also have the Chinese R3 DVD which does have a DTS track, but the R3 version is NTSC non-anamorphic and the image quality is'nt half as good as the new 2 disc SE which has been remastered for image qualty and sound, plus from what I've read, the SE sound effects have been enhanced in places for more impact. The benefits far outweigh the lack of a DTS track. Even the Japanese 2 disc SE did'nt come with a DTS track.
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That's a great edition, I'll have to get it, but will keep the R3 release anyway because it is a different version, and in DTS.
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Originally posted by Lenny Nero
That's a great edition, I'll have to get it, but will keep the R3 release anyway because it is a different version, and in DTS.
A different version in what way/ Has the new SE been cut?
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I can't wait for Amazon to ship mine :norty:
My thoughts exactly. :p
Good on Tartan for releasing a good DVD for once - I know it took three attempts but it's nice that they can do something good for a change.
Bamse - This is the "Special Version" more CGI blood, a new ending and a few extra/extended scenes are included on top of the Theatrical version (apparently ;)).
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Originally posted by Madm@tt
Good on Tartan for releasing a good DVD for once - I know it took three attempts but it's nice that they can do something good for a change.
A cynic might say that this was their game-plan all along. How many R2 only people will have bought this movie twice or even 3 times from them? Even Di$ney offer cash-back deals for previous purchasers but no sign of that from cheapskate Tartan.
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Thanks Madm@tt, sounds good to me. Who's the cheapest to get it from?
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This should rest nicely with my R3.
UPDATE: I just got my confirmation email from Amazon saying mine has been shipped!
Yum. :p
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Originally posted by Bamse
Thanks Madm@tt, sounds good to me. Who's the cheapest to get it from?
No-one say a word :mad: :p
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Oh, don't worry I've found it. Total Solutions Company have it up for the bargain price of £39.03. I think I'll go for that:p :nuts:
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try '*********************'
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PLay have it for £24 i think,
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"...with DVD player generated subtitles..."
...they are called optional subtitles... the player does not 'generate' anything - it merely 'reads' (and, if wanted/needed) 'calls off' what's recorded on the disc...
(...this is edging up to the No.1 spot on my list of pet peeves ... strange that nobody ever mentions a "player generated" dts soundtrack...)
(signed) Cantankerous Cary
. . . :nono: . . .
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Originally posted by Bamse
Thanks Madm@tt, sounds good to me. Who's the cheapest to get it from?
Well, mine has just been shipped by Amazon for the spectacular price of £11.85! :rocker:
There was a pricing error a couple of months ago. :p
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gotta love dem pricing errors! should get mine tomorrow too :clap:
Great flick in it's original version anyway.
Is there a website or anything that illustrates exactly what was changed and why?
ta
Richie
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Mine has been shipped aswell!:clap: :D
Hunter :)
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Hendrik - I did'nt know the official name for different kinds of subtitles....I just used the term DVD player generated just to let people know that the subtitles are not burnt into the movie itself. Does it really matter exactly what terms I used anyway...as long as people get the idea. Plus I'm only going buy what other people have said, I've even seen the term 'player generated subtitles' used when reading DVD reviews on many well known DVD websites.
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Originally posted by Hendrik
"...with DVD player generated subtitles..."
...they are called optional subtitles... the player does not 'generate' anything - it merely 'reads' (and, if wanted/needed) 'calls off' what's recorded on the disc...
(...this is edging up to the No.1 spot on my list of pet peeves ... strange that nobody ever mentions a "player generated" dts soundtrack...)
(signed) Cantankerous Cary
. . . :nono: . . .
Enough, you pedantic, UBB-code-abusing, internet-generated old fool!
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Originally posted by City Hunter
Mine has been shipped aswell!:clap: :D
Hunter :)
HEy HUNTER :norty:
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Amazon has shipped mine (for the fantastic price of £11.85, hehe). Hopefully it'll arrive tomorrow, but if Royal Mail suck as much as they usually do, it might be Tuesday. WildThing -- how did you get yours already? I guess I'm assuming everyone got it from Amazon during that lovely day they made a pricing error!
Bamse: The Special Edition is a version of the film with approximately 100 sound and film edits, to correct a few mistakes and make the violence more violent, sometimes with the aid of CG blood. There is also about 7 minutes of additional scenes.
Hendrik: You pedant! But I know how ot feels when little things can bug you. I personally hate it when people pronounce David Bowie's surname incorrectly. But anyway. I have always called them "player generated subtitles" because they are not a part of the DVD's picture -- they really are put onto the screen by the DVD player. Right? Or am I wrong? Sure, the DVD player reads a stream of information from the disc, but its the player that generates the subtitles on the screen. I always assumed so anyway.
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Originally posted by Narshty
Enough, you pedantic, UBB-code-abusing, internet-generated old fool!
:notworthy :thumbs:
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just ordered mine from play...looking forward to it...
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This sounds excellent, I think this is going to be the next DVD I buy :)
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if the player was simply reading a subtitle stream off the disc and displaying it the wouldn't it be an extra picture on top of the image. the player does generate the subtitles, there is simply a data stream that tells it what to 'write'. if the subtitles were 'generated' by the disc then they would look the same on all players, but they don't. the font used is somewhat different on my pc than on my pioneer player hence the player is generating them.
so there:D
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Im glad to hear that it has nearly all the extras of the Jap SE (i had that disc and it really did have soooo many extras i never got to watch em all before i flogged it on ebay :norty: )
got mine through the good old amazon pricing blunder also :rocker:
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"...but its the player that generates the subtitles on the screen. I always assumed so anyway."
...your assumption is dead wrong my friend... do you really think your player has a built-in cache of fonts in various sizes, thicknesses and colours that include e.g. French accents (à, é, è, ê, î, etc.) , or Russian, Arabic, Hebrew alphabets as well as Chinese and Japanese characters (all of which can be 'called off' at will when you play e.g. the RUSCICO DVD of, say, "STALKER"), or German Umlauts (ä, ö, ü), or diacritical marks such as are used used in Czech or Polish --- not to mention a bunch of very tiny but very clever linguists who do translations on-the-fly as the film unrolls before your astonished eyes...?...
...I ask you...!...
. . . :nono: . . .
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Originally posted by Hendrik
...they are called optional subtitles
Player-generated subs aren't always optional though :p
~~stu
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Originally posted by Hendrik
"...but its the player that generates the subtitles on the screen. I always assumed so anyway."
...your assumption is dead wrong my friend... do you really think your player has a built-in cache of fonts in various sizes, thicknesses and colours that include e.g. French accents (à, é, è, ê, î, etc.) , or Russian, Arabic, Hebrew alphabets as well as Chinese and Japanese characters (all of which can be 'called off' at will when you play e.g. the RUSCICO DVD of, say, "STALKER"), or German Umlauts (ä, ö, ü), or diacritical marks such as are used used in Czech or Polish --- not to mention a bunch of very tiny but very clever linguists who do translations on-the-fly as the film unrolls before your astonished eyes...?...
...I ask you...!...
. . . :nono: . . .
so why are the subtitles in different fonts on different players if the player has nothing to do with generating the subtitles?
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"...if the player was simply reading a subtitle stream off the disc and displaying it the wouldn't it be an extra picture on top of the image..."
...that's exactly what it is - except, I think, the correct term is not "an extra picture on top of the image" but, rather, an overlay...
...depending on which subtitles you call off, on which DVD, released by which company, they will look very different - for instance: generally, pretty tacky on MEI AH discs from HK --- nice and clear on MK2 discs from France (e.g. Truffaut movies) --- yellow English subs on the French DVD of "Drôle de Drame" --- often - where applicable - cursive (for, say, song texts, or voice-overs), and so on...
...so there!...
. . . :smokin: . . .
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Originally posted by Hendrik
"...if the player was simply reading a subtitle stream off the disc and displaying it the wouldn't it be an extra picture on top of the image..."
...that's exactly what it is - except, I think, the correct term is not "an extra picture on top of the image" but, rather, an overlay...
...depending on which subtitles you call off, on which DVD, released by which company, they will look very different - for instance: generally, pretty tacky on MEI AH discs from HK --- nice and clear on MK2 discs from France (e.g. Truffaut movies) --- yellow English subs on the French DVD of "Drôle de Drame" --- often - where applicable - cursive (for, say, song texts, or voice-overs), and so on...
...so there!...
. . . :smokin: . . .
no, i'm talking about the same disc being played on different machines and having different fonts. for example when i watched the avenging fist on my pc at work the other day using interactual player the subtitles were in a different font than when i got home and put it in my pioneer 454.
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...well... I'm at a loss here... I've never seen a movie played on a computer or PC (I'm a serious movie wacher! ;) )...
...BUT I've seen the same movie giving me the exact same subtitle 'fonts' on both my stand-alone DENON player and my portable PANASONIC player, also on a collegue's son's stand-alone PHILIPS player, and on another collegue's stand-alone JVC player, and on still another collegue's stand-alone THOMPSON player, and on yet another collegue's stand-alone SONY player (all, it should be said, serious movie watchers, or should I say film watchers)...
...the thing I don't understand is why people seem to assume quite naturally that subtitles are 'player generated', when these same people are smart enough to realise that the (DD 5.1, or DTS, or dubbed-into-another-language, etc.) soundtracks are, obviously, not 'player generated'...
. . . :confused: . . .
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DVD subtitles are stored in what is called subpicture streams, what this means is that the subtitle characters are not generated, but are actual graphic images that are overlayed over the running video. This allows for endless possibilities such as asian characters or virtually any graphic/picture. They are part of the disc.
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Subtitles definitely look different when viewed via a PC, I certainly notice that everytime I'm scanning through a disc for screengrabs.
I don't really see the problem with referring to subtitles as 'Player Generated' - in fact, its a term I quite like and use often myself. They are however a subpicture overlayed on top of the main image, which is why a subtitle track can contain storyboards, or any image you like really. Maybe the output of the subtitle font does have something to do with the player (i'm guessing here), which is why software players on a PC often have quite different looking subtitles (usually much rougher IMO).
Another term I quite often hear used is that of soft and hard subtitles - it took me all of 30-seconds to grasp the meanings of those terms so I really cannot see what the big issue is here. As long as people understand the term (and I suspect 99% of readers on these forums do) I can see no harm in using it.
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...ahh... William Shatners Wig ...thank you! ...thank you!! thank you!!!...
. . . :D . . .
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SqueakyG - The reason why I got my Battle Royale SE early is because I brought it in a shop which got it in a couple of days early. The only drawback being that it no doubt cost me a few pounds more than buying it online...but seeing on the shelf right there in front of you makes it a bit hard to resist buying it there and then LOL
On another note, about the subtitle issue. I kind of wish I never mentioned it in my original post, it was'nt my intention that it would grow into a debate, I simply just wanted to let people know that they are not 'burnt in' subtitles because I rememeber that one of the complaints about the original DVD release was the bad burnt in subtitles when Tartan decided to use a cinema print for the DVD
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No WildThing, the little subtitle debate was good, I learned some stuff about DVD that I didn't know before.
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> DVD subtitles are stored in what is called subpicture streams, what this means is that the subtitle characters are not generated, but are actual graphic images that are overlayed over the running video. This allows for endless possibilities such as asian characters or virtually any graphic/picture. They are part of the disc.
This is definately correct as any DVD ripper (naughty naughty :norty: ) will confirm. The subs are stored as bitmap files and are about 4mb in size cos they only store the pixels for the letters and any border. When ripping to a text file for use with vobsub or similar you have to use OCR type software that reads the bitmaps and generates text. It is usually necessary to spell check the text file cos the OCR mixes up l and I as there is somtimes no difference in the bitmap.
When you playback a Divx with a text subtitle file (.srt or .smi) then you truley do get PC generated subs where you can pick the font from any system font and also size and position on screen.
Or so I heard from some bloke down the pub, honest guv :D
P.S. I got got a mail from Amazon too, can't wait :)
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Originally posted by SqueakyG
No WildThing, the little subtitle debate was good, I learned some stuff about DVD that I didn't know before.
SqueakyG, love your sig.. .
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Well sure the subtitle streams are recorded on the disc, just like data for video and audio tracks, but the player does generate them by displaying it. Some players with build in DTS decoders do "generate" the audio, by transforming it from one form to another. Players do NOT CREATE them but they do Generate them, and it's a perfect use of the word. If there is another meaning to the word "generate", then you're wrong, and don't pull out any dictionaries, dictionaries are written by the people for the people and if the meaning of the word changed, you can't do anything by waving your dictionary in someone's face. Take a look at the F word for a perfect example.
Words are here to serve us and what we mean. End of story.
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...they are called optional subtitles... the player does not 'generate' anything - it merely 'reads' (and, if wanted/needed) 'calls off' what's recorded on the disc...
Saucer of milk, table 2! Meeeeoww!!
Chrikey man, take a chill pill - it's just a DVD FFS!
Westy
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Originally posted by kanedaa
They are however a subpicture overlayed on top of the main image, which is why a subtitle track can contain storyboards, or any image you like really.
This isn't entirely true actually. IIRC there is a limit of something like four colours (one of which is transparent) for a subtitle overlay, so they are actually quite limited.
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Arguement over subtitles = :dork:
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Got the DVD today! Here is my mini review:
Picture: I'm a bit disappointed actually. I know nothing about how a DVD picture works, but it has that weird fuzzy look to it... I don't know if that means its sourced from NTSC, or whatever. Just that it's fuzzy and the frames blur into each other. Also, my DVD player seems to stall and glitch at some points... but that's probably my old cheap player.
Extra stuff in the Special Edition: The CG blood is mostly just sprays that look unrealistic but certainly make scenes more violent. The additional scenes are a mixed bag: One scene is *amazing* because it adds a lot of depth to the character of Mitsuko -- in the original version she's just the psycho killer, but there's a very good flashback to her childhood. The basketball scenes are mostly pointless. And unfortunately, the "requiem" scenes tagged on to the end of the film really ruin the ending! The ending sucks now. So overall, I prefer the original version of the film, but I love the Mitsuko flashback.
DVD Extras: Lots of documentary stuff, adding up to about 90 minutes. It's pretty good, but doesn't really say enough. And the subtitles aren't very good on the documentaries -- incomplete and sometimes badly-translated.
Packaging: having a T2-style tin and a frame of the film is cool, but not when it jacks the price up so much. And the film frame I got was kinda lousy... just hands on a laptop keyboard.
Overall: Pretty good if you can find it cheap. In many ways I prefer the original cut though.
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the film disk is a DVD-5 (single layer) instead of DVD-9 (dual layer), so the bit-rate is only half what it could be.
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Originally posted by niz
the film disk is a DVD-5 (single layer) instead of DVD-9 (dual layer), so the bit-rate is only half what it could be. That isn't indicative of a bad transfer tho'
It only runs around 2 hours with one audio track, so 4.7GB should be more than enough to encode the movie well.
One of my best looking DVD's (and coincidentally my first) is <I>Starship Troopers</i> (r1) albeit DVD-10 (flipper single layer) and that had the 129min movie plus four audio tracks!
Take note that <I>Battle Royale</i> wasn't outstanding quality in the cinema either. I'll be happy with an anamorphic version of the HK r3 transfer. (esp. for £12) :thumbs:
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Are these 2 disc sets limited, because the film frames are numbered? I got no. 1920, how many sets are there alltogether?
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I have now watched it and some of the extra features and think SqueakyG hit the nail on the head with his comments. The subtitling on the extras is not good. Most of the behind-the-scenes talking between actors and from the director to the actors is missing completely. Usually just the interview type speech from the person to the camera is subtitled which is very fustrating.
I also agree that the new ending is pretty crap but you can just hit the stop button at the "RUN" title frame. The CG blood is ok for the most part execpt for the lighthouse scene.
Overall it was easily worth 11.85 :)
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Niz , exactly what I thought after checking out the disk specs.
Why the hell do they do this?? Surely it doesn't cost that much more to produce a DVD-9 and double the bit-rate? - especially considering the RRP of £30...
Gary, I totally agree with you about judging picture quality given a bitrate, but to be honest I thought BR:SE looked pretty ropey, even taking into consideration film stocks, storage conditions or whatever... Isn't this a recent release though - considering some of the wonders that HKL pull off for 20 year old films I would expect a better transfer.
Anybody know if this is the progressive NTSC version?? Wasn't that released on a DVD-5 as well?
Hey, maybe I'm sounding too negative here, afterall my hopes have been built up through reading the forums etc...
Overall I'm still happy with the DVD, especially the packaging/film frame etc... which I think is very well done.
...
(all for £5.97 :eek: ! )
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Originally posted by SqueakyG
I personally hate it when people pronounce David Bowie's surname incorrectly.
What, as in:
Spelling: "David Bowie"
Pronounced: "Stoat Mangrove Throat-Wobbler"
Boink!:D
It also gets my gf's goat when I deliberately pronounce it 'diferently' to how she insists [on pain of living burning death torture] it should be pronounced.
Women, eh? :norty:
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Originally posted by matt_uk
Niz .........Overall I'm still happy with the DVD, especially the packaging/film frame etc... which I think is very well done.
...
(all for £5.97 :eek: ! )
:shocker: AHHHH!!!! how and where did you get it for this price.
I was so excited about getting this tomorrow, but after all the crap you guys have been saying im scared to shell out 30 £.
Mr Matt, how and where did you get it for this cheap? :eek:
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Ages ago Amazon mis priced it and sold it for preorder at £10. I'm guessing he used vouchers to then bring it to a fiver :)
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the picture looked good on my player, definitely an improvement on the R3
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