Question:
What prompted this was enjoying reading the Sight & Sound survey, featuring all those critics' & directors' Top 10s. Whether people agree with these things or not, what it made me think about was how few of the choices were recent.
All this is a matter of opinion, but I remember how terrific going to the pictures was up to the mid-1990s (when the likes of, for example, Pulp Fiction, The Shawshank Redemption & the Three Colours Trilogy came out).
The US independent scene, plus foreign language movies, all seemed so fresh back then & alive with possibilities.
However, haven't things died a bit since then? I still go to the flicks a lot and at the end of each year, the best movies I've usually seen are foreign language ones, and even they're not as good as they used to be.
As I said above, it's all a matter of opinion & since I mentioned Pulp Fiction I guess I can't ignore how unfavourably this was compared to Amores Perros by many critics just last year. But I still think something's missing -- I try to pick out the best reviewed movies to go see, and while they're usually good they're seldom great.
I don't think there have been less 'truly great' films, although I think you are right that you are having to look further to find them. In the last 8 years I would say that there have been quite a few great films. David Lynch's Lost Highway, and Wong Kar-Wia' In The Mood For Love both deservedly appeared on quite a few lists in the Sight & Sound poll. Personally, I would also include Chen Kaige's The Emperor and the Assassin (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=657&story=2821) and Michael Haneke's The Piano Teacher (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=821&story=3175) as bold examples of greatness in modern cinema.
It really depends on your definition of "truly great" - we're unlikely to be able to assess a film's lasting worth until several years after its original release, not least because quite a few now undisputed masterpieces were released to a generally lukewarm reception (<I>La Regle du Jeu, Night of the Hunter</I> and <I>Vertigo</I> all got poor to mediocre reviews on their original release), while others turn out to be a temporary flash in the pan.
Certainly, from where I'm sitting now, <I>In the Mood for Love</I> looks like a strong candidate, as do Almodovar's <I>All About My Mother</I> (and his new <I>Talk to Her</I>, if rumours and initial reviews are to be believed) but who knows what they're going to look like ten years down the line?
Watch out for the shockwave effect as Lantana gets a wider and wider audience. This one's a masterpiece.
Some may not agree (after all that's the whole point of having an opinion), but one film of recent years that springs to mind is Almost Famous . Hopefully I'm not the only one to consider this a truly great film.
English Patient
Schindlers List
The Straight Story
Goodfella's (is that in the last 8 years?)
Shawshank Redemption
All IMHO will be viewed as classics in many years to come.
What about:
The Lord Of The Rings
The Sixth Sense
Unbreakable
Casino
The Others
Titanic (yes)
Pulp Fiction
American Beauty
All IMO brilliant, and all, maybe with the exception of Unbreakable, will be remembered for many years to come!
schindler's list (1993) and goodfellas (1990) were both in the "up to the mid-1990s" period that Dene mentioned at the top of the thread. he's just questioning stuff from about 1994 onwards.
while i agree with Michael Brooke about the difficulty, if not impossibility, of looking back at recent movies 'impartially' when trying to judge qualities such as "greatness", i would have thought the following were all likely candidates:
The Royal Tenenbaums
O Brother, Where Art Thou?
The Truman Show
Rushmore
The Usual Suspects
Leon
and if not truly "great", then they at least fit Dene's original criteria being in the same quality bracket as pulp fiction and shawshank/. well, in my opinion anyway! :)
and to a slightly lesser extent i might also add these:
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
Being John Malkovich
Fight Club
L.A. Confidential
I'd say Eyes Wide Shut, In The Mood for Love and The Royal Tenenbaums are only going to be more loved and more important as time passes.
Originally posted by Marts62
Watch out for the shockwave effect as Lantana gets a wider and wider audience. This one's a masterpiece.
I agree for the most part. Saw this on Friday and it's a terrific film although I'm not sure if it'll stand the test of time. I think this and In The Bedroom have to be my films of the year so far. As for the The Shawshank Redemption I think it'll be regarded in much the same way as It's A Wonderful Life - a popular favourite due to it's sentiment rather than any particular cinematic merit.
I think what really makes a classic film is innovation. Films such as Citizen Kane, Vertigo and La Regle Du Jeu broke new ground - something we don't see much of in the mainstream nowadays.
Magnolia comes to mind. In 20 years time I should hope people will still be watching that with joy.
Originally posted by Jazzatola
I think what really makes a classic film is innovation. Films such as Citizen Kane, Vertigo and La Regle Du Jeu broke new ground - something we don't see much of in the mainstream nowadays.
.....With regard to innovation, then surely "Memento" falls into that category? ... The backwards narrative that improves the movie aint been seen anywhere else .... or has it?
People always tend look at the past through rose-tinted glasses. "Its not as good as it was in (insert your own date here)"And also a lot of people also equate entertainment with a lack of artistic merit....ie if the masses enjoy it how can be artistically worthwhile.
There have been some truly great films recent years, some of which in my opinion are:
Amelie
LA Confidential
Jackie Brown
Requiem For A Dream
Pi
Straight Story
Ghost Dog
Rushmore
LOTR
Heat
There are quite few more which aren't jumping into my feeble mind and the moment and no doubt a lot lot more that I haven't seen.
three words
FREDDY GOT FINGERED:rocker: :eek: :nuts:
Dog Soldiers :notworthy
Originally posted by TonyG
...surely "Memento" falls into that category...
I'd go along with that, Memento is a great film. I just hope Christopher Nolan isn't following in Orson Welle's footsteps...
Eyes Wide Shut seems to grow with stature (quite right too) each year, so that's one for any list I'd compile. I'd also throw in:
Ghost Dog
Dead Man
Fight Club
Princess Mononoke (the original Japanese)
O Brother Where art Thou
Amelie
Rushmore
a few that have allready been mentioned and Requiem For A Dream
One thing you have to do, though, if compiling a conscientious "great films" list, is weigh contemporary entries up against the great films of the past - and I'd be intrigued to know whether those championing <I>Amelie</I> in this thread have seen anything by Jean Vigo or Jean Renoir, because to me it looked like the palest of imitations. It's not a bad film on its own terms, but it's a very long way from an all-time classic!
But I don't see why entertainment should disbar a film from contention in the "greatness" stakes - <I>Singin' in the Rain</I> is on the Sight & Sound list (and not for the first time), and there are few better examples of pure entertainment than that. I'd also cite <I>Citizen Kane, La Regle du Jeu, The Godfather, Dr Strangelove</I> and <I>Seven Samurai</I> from the same lists - true, they may have slightly more depth than the average popcorn fluff, but they're still enormously enjoyable.
Fight CLub
Julio Medem's Tierra
Edward Yang's YiYi
Kiarostami's Taste of Cherry and maybe The Wind Will Carry Us
Mann's The Insider is one that improves every viewing
and obviously In the Modd for Love
Medem's Sex and Lucia also gave me that buzz, that lovely cinema buzz
I would personally include the Korean film My Sassy Girl as a great film which can only grow in stature.
I am sure a lot of people will disagree with me but it's one of the only teen romances/comedies I have absolutely loved with a great story and great performances.
It deserves to be more popular as far as I am concerned :)
I'd add Michael Mann's The Insider which I think is a fantastic film. Perhaps not great, but certainly very, very good. :)
Also:
The Thin Red Line
Eyes Wide Shut
Mulholland Drive
Se7en woz fantastic .. nuff said :thumbs:
... unless someone disagrees :nono:
Originally posted by TonyG
.....With regard to innovation, then surely "Memento" falls into that category? ... The backwards narrative that improves the movie aint been seen anywhere else .... or has it?
It was used in the Korean film Peppermint Candy. If you haven't seen it you should check it out it's really great movie. The begining of the film opens with a man's suicide and then tells the story of how he got to that point by showing his story in reverse. They both came out in 2000, but I'm pretty sure Peppermint Candy came 1st.
Originally posted by ScreachingWeasel
It was used in the Korean film Peppermint Candy. ...
Hey never knew about that ... I will certainly check that out as its available on a cheap HK R3 disc.
Titanic
Another Vote for Magnolia.
Colin
Originally posted by ScreachingWeasel
The begining of the film opens with a mans suicide and then tells the stroy of how he got to that point by showing his story in reverse. They both came out in 2000, but I'm pretty sure Peppermint Candy came 1st.
What, twenty-two years after the premiere of Harold Pinter's play <I>Betrayal</I>? What took them so long?
Originally posted by Michael Brooke
What, twenty-two years after the premiere of Harold Pinter's play <I>Betrayal</I>? What took them so long?
Well Horse Pucky! I'll have to try and check that out.
Is betrayal any good though? :D
Usual Suspects?
Originally posted by Cirrus888
Is betrayal any good though? :D
Yes - it's not generally ranked as high as <I>The Birthday Party, The Caretaker, The Homecoming</I> and <I>No Man's Land</I> in Pinter's output, but it's not considered especially minor either.
Then again, I think it's a little unfair to lump all these titles together as though they're all ripping each other off (throwing in Martin Amis' 1991 novel <I>Time's Arrow</I> and Gaspar Noé's forthcoming <I>Irréversible</I> as well), as in most cases all they really have in common is that they tell their stories backwards.
<I>Memento</I> is trying to do something quite different from <I>Betrayal</I>, for instance - if you think about the specific illness of the lead character, it becomes clear that the way Nolan constructs <I>Memento</I> is pretty much the only logical one in order to create empathy with him, regardless of whether Pinter used a similar narrative device a couple of decades earlier.
Yes to each its own merits otherwise why would I continually seek out films of the same genre ...
In The Mood For Love
The Royal Tenenbaums
Rushmore
Magnolia
Requiem For a Dream
Mulholland Drive
Saving Private Ryan(1999) It was the most moving and emotional movie experience at the cinema for me, really was into it, and people can talk about finer details, but what it did as a war movie then others I have seen, really was realistic to the situations, and felt no big heroics, alot of the soliders were lucky to dodge some bullits etc, Tom Hanks, among others, put in great performances.
Heat (1995) Pacino, De Niro, within all the common robbery and cop stuff, attention to detail is what sets it aparts, its done very well, and the whole experience was very unlifting, especially the ending, a experience similar to my enjoyment of Blade Runner. Just care about the characters alot, and the situations are like a coating of ice, that enhances it and buids up The Heat, like the movie title itself.
Still waiting for a S.E of this film, would get the R2 now, but reviews give the picture a big down.
Donnie Darko
Rushmore
Open Your Eyes
Buffalo 66
Chasing Amy
Swingers (just sneaks in-1996)
Office Space
all fantastic films IMO.
Mr Stanton will now tell you two films that are modern classics and no argueing.... Toy Story 1 & 2.
I firmly believe in great cinema regardless of decade. Great films for me these past 10 years have included:
Memento
Requiem for a Dream
Amores Perros
Saving Private Ryan
Bully
In the mood for Love
Fargo
Fight Club
Sixth Sense
Lifei s Beautiful
Lone Star
Magnolia
The Pledge
Traffic
Unbreakable
Anaconda
Well ok, maybe not the last one. :p
Boogie Nights (tho it is very showy) may pass the test of time
The Royal Tenenbaums
Out of Sight :eek:
sorry they are all mainstream but you never know if people will ever appreciate all those small gems of films (mentioned on these forums my MB et al) most people never get a chance to see
I gotta admit I'm biased as my favourite genre is probably 90s American Indie movies but works that I think will stand the test of time include:
Happiness
Ghost World
Blair Witch Project
The Big Lebowski
...and sneaking in from the mainstream...
A.I.
Originally posted by Pentasa
Boogie Nights (tho it is very showy) may pass the test of time
The Royal Tenenbaums
Out of Sight :eek:
sorry they are all mainstream but you never know if people will ever appreciate all those small gems of films (mentioned on these forums my MB et al) most people never get a chance to see
with the possible exception of Out of Sight most of the general public would not consider these mainstream, but rather "wierd"
I think there have been quite a lot of incredibly good movies, a steady stream in fact. I dunno if it's relevant to talk about 'truly great' when they are still relatively young but I'd put most of these on the posterity list.
My own list (roughly chronological)
<b>The Age Of Innocence
L'Eau Froid
Quiz Show
La Reine Margot
Hoop Dreams
Cobb
The Bridges Of Madison County
Seven
Heat
Casino
Nixon
Fargo
Dead Man Walking
Lone Star
Breaking The Waves
Shine
Crash
Unhook The Stars
Lost Highway
Nil By Mouth
Mother Night
Deconstructing Harry
</b>
Won't go any further at present. But all the above are great movies in one way or another.
A list of films I found to be truly great (and who cares what any of the self-appointed experts think ;))
Being John Malkovich
Lord of the Rings
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
Memento
Iijima's "Eureka"
City of Lost Children
Hana-bi
In the Mood for Love
Lantana
Yi Yi
Topsy Turvy
Beijing Bicycle
I can tell you that one of the reasons why I would even look at a supposed great film from the past would be due to a series of brilliant or distinctive films from a single director.
If this were true 30 - 40 years from now then 50 - 80% of these films mentioned above wouldn't even be remembered let alone on a list of must sees.
Personally, I think Seven is among the best films to be made during the last eight years. Its probably the best serial killer movie I've ever seen. When I went to see it in the cinema, I was transfixed to the screen from beginning to end. Its one of the few times where my attention never once waned.
Memento
Ghost world
Being John Malkovitch
Fight Club
The Straight Story
Velvet Goldmine
Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas
Battle Royale
Originally posted by Cirrus888
I can tell you that one of the reasons why I would even look at a supposed great film from the past would be due to a series of brilliant or distinctive films from a single director.
Conversley, does this mean that you would ignore the work of a director who has made a series of undistinctive or mediocre films, despite the fact that he/she may have made the odd gem? George Lucas or Steven Spielberg for example.
I prefer to judge each film on its own merits and am more likely to be initially attracted to a film by its plot/storyline, than by its director.
If this were true 30 - 40 years from now then 50 - 80% of these films mentioned above wouldn't even be remembered let alone on a list of must sees.
Not necessarily... don't forget that the titles listed in this topic are films made in the last 8 years and there is no reason why any of the directors involved could not go on to make any number of great films (in fact some of them already have - Ang Lee, Jim Jarmusch, David Lynch, Terry Gilliam, Joel and Ethan Cohen, Stanley Kubrick... to name but a few).
regards, Tim...
a thread worthy of revival :noid:
Originally posted by SeanValen
Heat (1995) Pacino, De Niro, within all the common robbery and cop stuff, attention to detail is what sets it aparts, its done very well, and the whole experience was very unlifting, especially the ending, a experience similar to my enjoyment of Blade Runner. Just care about the characters alot, and the situations are like a coating of ice, that enhances it and buids up The Heat, like the movie title itself.
Still waiting for a S.E of this film, would get the R2 now, but reviews give the picture a big down.
I actually watched Heat for the first time tonight and throught it was exellent , the ending was very well done and I was on the edge of my seat.
It took me this long to see it as I was told by a friend it was very boring and long :brickwall
Originally posted by Tim Fleming
Conversley, does this mean that you would ignore the work of a director who has made a series of undistinctive or mediocre films, despite the fact that he/she may have made the odd gem?
No I wouldn't but 40 years down the line films about plot and character will almost certainly get lost among the thousand of movies being release ... so how would you find out about individual great movies?
Directors making great films today and will they continue to make them ... we can only wait and see ...
I want to add that Sympathy For Mr. Vengeance and Christmas in August as being the best films I have seen recently and certainly within the last 8 years.
Pretty pointless trying to define a defiitive list of "truly great" films as its just about the most subjective topic around
I suggest everybody has to agree on the criteria for "true greatness" before you can even start to draw up a definitive list - even then ones own personal reaction to a film will be different to others
I would suggest that at least one criteria for true greatness is that the film has to be ground breaking i.e. something truly original (Memento perhaps) - I would also suggest another optional criteria is that one looks at the impact of the film on the way people think (offhand I cannot really think of such a film in recent times - maybe Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List comes close but I didnt really enjoy those films myself THAT much)
Another criteria which one can only apply over time is if the film has a big influence on film making in the future - cannot really apply this criteria to recent films for obvious reasons
Memento IMO should be on the list but one has to argue its case based mainly on it originality, acting and directing rather on any major sociological affect its had on peoples thinking or on film-making
I'd like to add Battle Royale but Im not sure I feel happy calling it a "truly great" film - its the best adrenalin rush I ever had while watching a film but does that qualify it ? - not sure - apparently its the MTV rock & roll version of the book which goes far more into the political nature of the "BR Act"
Similarly with Run Lola Run - very original and another great adrenalin rush - but "truly great" - not sure
Im far happier listing films I really enjoyed watching rather than trying to list "truly great" films which are not necessarily the same thing
Originally posted by AndyWilson
I gotta admit I'm biased as my favourite genre is probably 90s American Indie movies but works that I think will stand the test of time include:
Blair Witch Project
A.I.
Ok, I HAVE to step in now. I held my tongue when someone claimed O' Brother was a great movie, held off typing when Fight Club was added to the mix, tried not to choke when Unbreakable was held up in high esteem. All three dreadful, terrible movies, but I draw the line at this one. TBWP is probably the worst movie I've ever seen (and I've seen a good couple of thousand movies). There was no suspense, no scare, no surprises, no tension, no empathy for the characters, not even a slight raising of the blood pressure (which was surprising because the cinemas were supposedly reporting faintings, pukings and screamings - were they showing the film to 4 year olds?). It was an incredible, clever premise, that delivered nothing at all.
Just my opinion of course ;-)
Gladiator;)
Originally posted by andybhoy
TBWP is probably the worst movie I've ever seen (and I've seen a good couple of thousand movies). There was no suspense, no scare, no surprises, no tension, no empathy for the characters, not even a slight raising of the blood pressure
What he said.
As a side note - i hated the Blair Witch Project, but for Film studies we had to write a paper on either the opening of Urban Legends(?!?), The opening of Scream 2 or the end of Blair Witch project - i wrote on Blair Witch because i just seen the other 2 so many times - and it turned out i got an A for it...which was nice. Now though after studying it i enjoy it far more and i can see why people threw up/were scared.
But i digress.
For me It's A.I., Requiem For A Dream and Heat - oh and lest we forget the Toy Story movies.
So far that's all - though Im sure LOTR will slip in there eventually.
Home alone 2 is the epitomy of a truly classic film. Using a post modern sub-ironic slant , it tackles the issues that are of true importance to humanity.
The film is of such importance that though I have never seen the it, it's dramatic impact has changed humanity from being a provincial inward looking globe , to being at the forefront of universal politics .
By the way what happened to that annoying little chap in it?
...he got married and divorced...
. . . :smokin: . . .
Donnie Darko
Memento
Fight Club
Fargo (& coen stuff generally)
Magnolia the frogs bit is a great device for the ending top stuff
Usual Suspects
Tenenbaums (prefered Zoolander myself mainly due to Mugatu - they should have used more of the outtakes in the main film, but gene hackman was great in this)
Unbreakable (not sixth sense)
Just going back to TBWP, it was original when it came out... was a good idea and the way they publicised it was clever too. Just a shame it was so dull really ;)
Most of the truly great movies came out in the last 8 years if you listen to me :D
I do agree there don't seem to be as many 'great' movies being made from 95ish. A agree with some of the films listed but the only two I would count as being truly great are Requiem for a Dream and Lost Highway. I'm tempted to say Memento too, but the other two *really* blow me away and are just on another level. Actually, Festen is worth a mention too cos that also blew me away when I saw it at the cinema. Didn't think of that straight away as I don't have it on DVD (no UK or US release although amazon.com has it down as released January 1, 2010 :nuts: ).
When it comes to action movies very little recently has been anywhere near as good as the classics (Terminator 1&2, Robocop, Predator, Die Hard), although I was very impressed by Blade 2.
I think probably American Beauty will stand the test of time, and also maybe Trainspotting. Gladiator will continue to be enjoyed and aclaimed as well, I think. I notice no one has mentioned TPM or AOTC!
I like threads like thse as people may list slightly obscure films you may not have seen or heard of - gives you a chance to check them out
On the other hand when someone nominates Home Alone 2 and the recent Star Wars movies as "truly great" film - fraid all I can do is shake my head and roll my eyes :)
O Brother Where Art Thou
The Thin Red Line
Saving Private Ryan
Gladiator
Black Hawk Down
The Last Broadcast
Apollo 13
and although I don't think it carries any weight in terms of "greatness", I can't think of a better "suspend belief/no brains" adventure in the last few years than The Mummy.
The much maligned on the forums The Matrix did the biz for me back in '99 as far as "eye-poppingly enjoyable" goes..and I had that "thrown out of the cinema" feeling for hours after.
There are none of my top twenty films released in the last 10 years..all are 70's and 80's. No..nothing.
All this is a matter of opinion, but I remember how terrific going to the pictures was up to the mid-1990s (when the likes of, for example, Pulp Fiction, The Shawshank Redemption & the Three Colours Trilogy came out).
The US independent scene, plus foreign language movies, all seemed so fresh back then & alive with possibilities.
However, haven't things died a bit since then? I still go to the flicks a lot and at the end of each year, the best movies I've usually seen are foreign language ones, and even they're not as good as they used to be.
As I said above, it's all a matter of opinion & since I mentioned Pulp Fiction I guess I can't ignore how unfavourably this was compared to Amores Perros by many critics just last year. But I still think something's missing -- I try to pick out the best reviewed movies to go see, and while they're usually good they're seldom great.
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I don't think there have been less 'truly great' films, although I think you are right that you are having to look further to find them. In the last 8 years I would say that there have been quite a few great films. David Lynch's Lost Highway, and Wong Kar-Wia' In The Mood For Love both deservedly appeared on quite a few lists in the Sight & Sound poll. Personally, I would also include Chen Kaige's The Emperor and the Assassin (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=657&story=2821) and Michael Haneke's The Piano Teacher (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/index.cgi?page=Review&id=821&story=3175) as bold examples of greatness in modern cinema.
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It really depends on your definition of "truly great" - we're unlikely to be able to assess a film's lasting worth until several years after its original release, not least because quite a few now undisputed masterpieces were released to a generally lukewarm reception (<I>La Regle du Jeu, Night of the Hunter</I> and <I>Vertigo</I> all got poor to mediocre reviews on their original release), while others turn out to be a temporary flash in the pan.
Certainly, from where I'm sitting now, <I>In the Mood for Love</I> looks like a strong candidate, as do Almodovar's <I>All About My Mother</I> (and his new <I>Talk to Her</I>, if rumours and initial reviews are to be believed) but who knows what they're going to look like ten years down the line?
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Watch out for the shockwave effect as Lantana gets a wider and wider audience. This one's a masterpiece.
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Some may not agree (after all that's the whole point of having an opinion), but one film of recent years that springs to mind is Almost Famous . Hopefully I'm not the only one to consider this a truly great film.
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English Patient
Schindlers List
The Straight Story
Goodfella's (is that in the last 8 years?)
Shawshank Redemption
All IMHO will be viewed as classics in many years to come.
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What about:
The Lord Of The Rings
The Sixth Sense
Unbreakable
Casino
The Others
Titanic (yes)
Pulp Fiction
American Beauty
All IMO brilliant, and all, maybe with the exception of Unbreakable, will be remembered for many years to come!
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schindler's list (1993) and goodfellas (1990) were both in the "up to the mid-1990s" period that Dene mentioned at the top of the thread. he's just questioning stuff from about 1994 onwards.
while i agree with Michael Brooke about the difficulty, if not impossibility, of looking back at recent movies 'impartially' when trying to judge qualities such as "greatness", i would have thought the following were all likely candidates:
The Royal Tenenbaums
O Brother, Where Art Thou?
The Truman Show
Rushmore
The Usual Suspects
Leon
and if not truly "great", then they at least fit Dene's original criteria being in the same quality bracket as pulp fiction and shawshank/. well, in my opinion anyway! :)
and to a slightly lesser extent i might also add these:
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
Being John Malkovich
Fight Club
L.A. Confidential
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I'd say Eyes Wide Shut, In The Mood for Love and The Royal Tenenbaums are only going to be more loved and more important as time passes.
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Originally posted by Marts62
Watch out for the shockwave effect as Lantana gets a wider and wider audience. This one's a masterpiece.
I agree for the most part. Saw this on Friday and it's a terrific film although I'm not sure if it'll stand the test of time. I think this and In The Bedroom have to be my films of the year so far. As for the The Shawshank Redemption I think it'll be regarded in much the same way as It's A Wonderful Life - a popular favourite due to it's sentiment rather than any particular cinematic merit.
I think what really makes a classic film is innovation. Films such as Citizen Kane, Vertigo and La Regle Du Jeu broke new ground - something we don't see much of in the mainstream nowadays.
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Magnolia comes to mind. In 20 years time I should hope people will still be watching that with joy.
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Originally posted by Jazzatola
I think what really makes a classic film is innovation. Films such as Citizen Kane, Vertigo and La Regle Du Jeu broke new ground - something we don't see much of in the mainstream nowadays.
.....With regard to innovation, then surely "Memento" falls into that category? ... The backwards narrative that improves the movie aint been seen anywhere else .... or has it?
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People always tend look at the past through rose-tinted glasses. "Its not as good as it was in (insert your own date here)"And also a lot of people also equate entertainment with a lack of artistic merit....ie if the masses enjoy it how can be artistically worthwhile.
There have been some truly great films recent years, some of which in my opinion are:
Amelie
LA Confidential
Jackie Brown
Requiem For A Dream
Pi
Straight Story
Ghost Dog
Rushmore
LOTR
Heat
There are quite few more which aren't jumping into my feeble mind and the moment and no doubt a lot lot more that I haven't seen.
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three words
FREDDY GOT FINGERED:rocker: :eek: :nuts:
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Dog Soldiers :notworthy
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Originally posted by TonyG
...surely "Memento" falls into that category...
I'd go along with that, Memento is a great film. I just hope Christopher Nolan isn't following in Orson Welle's footsteps...
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Eyes Wide Shut seems to grow with stature (quite right too) each year, so that's one for any list I'd compile. I'd also throw in:
Ghost Dog
Dead Man
Fight Club
Princess Mononoke (the original Japanese)
O Brother Where art Thou
Amelie
Rushmore
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a few that have allready been mentioned and Requiem For A Dream
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One thing you have to do, though, if compiling a conscientious "great films" list, is weigh contemporary entries up against the great films of the past - and I'd be intrigued to know whether those championing <I>Amelie</I> in this thread have seen anything by Jean Vigo or Jean Renoir, because to me it looked like the palest of imitations. It's not a bad film on its own terms, but it's a very long way from an all-time classic!
But I don't see why entertainment should disbar a film from contention in the "greatness" stakes - <I>Singin' in the Rain</I> is on the Sight & Sound list (and not for the first time), and there are few better examples of pure entertainment than that. I'd also cite <I>Citizen Kane, La Regle du Jeu, The Godfather, Dr Strangelove</I> and <I>Seven Samurai</I> from the same lists - true, they may have slightly more depth than the average popcorn fluff, but they're still enormously enjoyable.
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Fight CLub
Julio Medem's Tierra
Edward Yang's YiYi
Kiarostami's Taste of Cherry and maybe The Wind Will Carry Us
Mann's The Insider is one that improves every viewing
and obviously In the Modd for Love
Medem's Sex and Lucia also gave me that buzz, that lovely cinema buzz
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I would personally include the Korean film My Sassy Girl as a great film which can only grow in stature.
I am sure a lot of people will disagree with me but it's one of the only teen romances/comedies I have absolutely loved with a great story and great performances.
It deserves to be more popular as far as I am concerned :)
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I'd add Michael Mann's The Insider which I think is a fantastic film. Perhaps not great, but certainly very, very good. :)
Also:
The Thin Red Line
Eyes Wide Shut
Mulholland Drive
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Se7en woz fantastic .. nuff said :thumbs:
... unless someone disagrees :nono:
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Originally posted by TonyG
.....With regard to innovation, then surely "Memento" falls into that category? ... The backwards narrative that improves the movie aint been seen anywhere else .... or has it?
It was used in the Korean film Peppermint Candy. If you haven't seen it you should check it out it's really great movie. The begining of the film opens with a man's suicide and then tells the story of how he got to that point by showing his story in reverse. They both came out in 2000, but I'm pretty sure Peppermint Candy came 1st.
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Originally posted by ScreachingWeasel
It was used in the Korean film Peppermint Candy. ...
Hey never knew about that ... I will certainly check that out as its available on a cheap HK R3 disc.
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Titanic
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Another Vote for Magnolia.
Colin
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Originally posted by ScreachingWeasel
The begining of the film opens with a mans suicide and then tells the stroy of how he got to that point by showing his story in reverse. They both came out in 2000, but I'm pretty sure Peppermint Candy came 1st.
What, twenty-two years after the premiere of Harold Pinter's play <I>Betrayal</I>? What took them so long?
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Originally posted by Michael Brooke
What, twenty-two years after the premiere of Harold Pinter's play <I>Betrayal</I>? What took them so long?
Well Horse Pucky! I'll have to try and check that out.
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Is betrayal any good though? :D
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Usual Suspects?
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Originally posted by Cirrus888
Is betrayal any good though? :D
Yes - it's not generally ranked as high as <I>The Birthday Party, The Caretaker, The Homecoming</I> and <I>No Man's Land</I> in Pinter's output, but it's not considered especially minor either.
Then again, I think it's a little unfair to lump all these titles together as though they're all ripping each other off (throwing in Martin Amis' 1991 novel <I>Time's Arrow</I> and Gaspar Noé's forthcoming <I>Irréversible</I> as well), as in most cases all they really have in common is that they tell their stories backwards.
<I>Memento</I> is trying to do something quite different from <I>Betrayal</I>, for instance - if you think about the specific illness of the lead character, it becomes clear that the way Nolan constructs <I>Memento</I> is pretty much the only logical one in order to create empathy with him, regardless of whether Pinter used a similar narrative device a couple of decades earlier.
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Yes to each its own merits otherwise why would I continually seek out films of the same genre ...
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In The Mood For Love
The Royal Tenenbaums
Rushmore
Magnolia
Requiem For a Dream
Mulholland Drive
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Saving Private Ryan(1999) It was the most moving and emotional movie experience at the cinema for me, really was into it, and people can talk about finer details, but what it did as a war movie then others I have seen, really was realistic to the situations, and felt no big heroics, alot of the soliders were lucky to dodge some bullits etc, Tom Hanks, among others, put in great performances.
Heat (1995) Pacino, De Niro, within all the common robbery and cop stuff, attention to detail is what sets it aparts, its done very well, and the whole experience was very unlifting, especially the ending, a experience similar to my enjoyment of Blade Runner. Just care about the characters alot, and the situations are like a coating of ice, that enhances it and buids up The Heat, like the movie title itself.
Still waiting for a S.E of this film, would get the R2 now, but reviews give the picture a big down.
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Donnie Darko
Rushmore
Open Your Eyes
Buffalo 66
Chasing Amy
Swingers (just sneaks in-1996)
Office Space
all fantastic films IMO.
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Mr Stanton will now tell you two films that are modern classics and no argueing.... Toy Story 1 & 2.
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I firmly believe in great cinema regardless of decade. Great films for me these past 10 years have included:
Memento
Requiem for a Dream
Amores Perros
Saving Private Ryan
Bully
In the mood for Love
Fargo
Fight Club
Sixth Sense
Lifei s Beautiful
Lone Star
Magnolia
The Pledge
Traffic
Unbreakable
Anaconda
Well ok, maybe not the last one. :p
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Boogie Nights (tho it is very showy) may pass the test of time
The Royal Tenenbaums
Out of Sight :eek:
sorry they are all mainstream but you never know if people will ever appreciate all those small gems of films (mentioned on these forums my MB et al) most people never get a chance to see
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I gotta admit I'm biased as my favourite genre is probably 90s American Indie movies but works that I think will stand the test of time include:
Happiness
Ghost World
Blair Witch Project
The Big Lebowski
...and sneaking in from the mainstream...
A.I.
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Originally posted by Pentasa
Boogie Nights (tho it is very showy) may pass the test of time
The Royal Tenenbaums
Out of Sight :eek:
sorry they are all mainstream but you never know if people will ever appreciate all those small gems of films (mentioned on these forums my MB et al) most people never get a chance to see
with the possible exception of Out of Sight most of the general public would not consider these mainstream, but rather "wierd"
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I think there have been quite a lot of incredibly good movies, a steady stream in fact. I dunno if it's relevant to talk about 'truly great' when they are still relatively young but I'd put most of these on the posterity list.
My own list (roughly chronological)
<b>The Age Of Innocence
L'Eau Froid
Quiz Show
La Reine Margot
Hoop Dreams
Cobb
The Bridges Of Madison County
Seven
Heat
Casino
Nixon
Fargo
Dead Man Walking
Lone Star
Breaking The Waves
Shine
Crash
Unhook The Stars
Lost Highway
Nil By Mouth
Mother Night
Deconstructing Harry
</b>
Won't go any further at present. But all the above are great movies in one way or another.
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A list of films I found to be truly great (and who cares what any of the self-appointed experts think ;))
Being John Malkovich
Lord of the Rings
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
Memento
Iijima's "Eureka"
City of Lost Children
Hana-bi
In the Mood for Love
Lantana
Yi Yi
Topsy Turvy
Beijing Bicycle
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I can tell you that one of the reasons why I would even look at a supposed great film from the past would be due to a series of brilliant or distinctive films from a single director.
If this were true 30 - 40 years from now then 50 - 80% of these films mentioned above wouldn't even be remembered let alone on a list of must sees.
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Personally, I think Seven is among the best films to be made during the last eight years. Its probably the best serial killer movie I've ever seen. When I went to see it in the cinema, I was transfixed to the screen from beginning to end. Its one of the few times where my attention never once waned.
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Memento
Ghost world
Being John Malkovitch
Fight Club
The Straight Story
Velvet Goldmine
Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas
Battle Royale
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Originally posted by Cirrus888
I can tell you that one of the reasons why I would even look at a supposed great film from the past would be due to a series of brilliant or distinctive films from a single director.
Conversley, does this mean that you would ignore the work of a director who has made a series of undistinctive or mediocre films, despite the fact that he/she may have made the odd gem? George Lucas or Steven Spielberg for example.
I prefer to judge each film on its own merits and am more likely to be initially attracted to a film by its plot/storyline, than by its director.
If this were true 30 - 40 years from now then 50 - 80% of these films mentioned above wouldn't even be remembered let alone on a list of must sees.
Not necessarily... don't forget that the titles listed in this topic are films made in the last 8 years and there is no reason why any of the directors involved could not go on to make any number of great films (in fact some of them already have - Ang Lee, Jim Jarmusch, David Lynch, Terry Gilliam, Joel and Ethan Cohen, Stanley Kubrick... to name but a few).
regards, Tim...
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a thread worthy of revival :noid:
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Originally posted by SeanValen
Heat (1995) Pacino, De Niro, within all the common robbery and cop stuff, attention to detail is what sets it aparts, its done very well, and the whole experience was very unlifting, especially the ending, a experience similar to my enjoyment of Blade Runner. Just care about the characters alot, and the situations are like a coating of ice, that enhances it and buids up The Heat, like the movie title itself.
Still waiting for a S.E of this film, would get the R2 now, but reviews give the picture a big down.
I actually watched Heat for the first time tonight and throught it was exellent , the ending was very well done and I was on the edge of my seat.
It took me this long to see it as I was told by a friend it was very boring and long :brickwall
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Originally posted by Tim Fleming
Conversley, does this mean that you would ignore the work of a director who has made a series of undistinctive or mediocre films, despite the fact that he/she may have made the odd gem?
No I wouldn't but 40 years down the line films about plot and character will almost certainly get lost among the thousand of movies being release ... so how would you find out about individual great movies?
Directors making great films today and will they continue to make them ... we can only wait and see ...
I want to add that Sympathy For Mr. Vengeance and Christmas in August as being the best films I have seen recently and certainly within the last 8 years.
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Pretty pointless trying to define a defiitive list of "truly great" films as its just about the most subjective topic around
I suggest everybody has to agree on the criteria for "true greatness" before you can even start to draw up a definitive list - even then ones own personal reaction to a film will be different to others
I would suggest that at least one criteria for true greatness is that the film has to be ground breaking i.e. something truly original (Memento perhaps) - I would also suggest another optional criteria is that one looks at the impact of the film on the way people think (offhand I cannot really think of such a film in recent times - maybe Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List comes close but I didnt really enjoy those films myself THAT much)
Another criteria which one can only apply over time is if the film has a big influence on film making in the future - cannot really apply this criteria to recent films for obvious reasons
Memento IMO should be on the list but one has to argue its case based mainly on it originality, acting and directing rather on any major sociological affect its had on peoples thinking or on film-making
I'd like to add Battle Royale but Im not sure I feel happy calling it a "truly great" film - its the best adrenalin rush I ever had while watching a film but does that qualify it ? - not sure - apparently its the MTV rock & roll version of the book which goes far more into the political nature of the "BR Act"
Similarly with Run Lola Run - very original and another great adrenalin rush - but "truly great" - not sure
Im far happier listing films I really enjoyed watching rather than trying to list "truly great" films which are not necessarily the same thing
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Originally posted by AndyWilson
I gotta admit I'm biased as my favourite genre is probably 90s American Indie movies but works that I think will stand the test of time include:
Blair Witch Project
A.I.
Ok, I HAVE to step in now. I held my tongue when someone claimed O' Brother was a great movie, held off typing when Fight Club was added to the mix, tried not to choke when Unbreakable was held up in high esteem. All three dreadful, terrible movies, but I draw the line at this one. TBWP is probably the worst movie I've ever seen (and I've seen a good couple of thousand movies). There was no suspense, no scare, no surprises, no tension, no empathy for the characters, not even a slight raising of the blood pressure (which was surprising because the cinemas were supposedly reporting faintings, pukings and screamings - were they showing the film to 4 year olds?). It was an incredible, clever premise, that delivered nothing at all.
Just my opinion of course ;-)
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Gladiator;)
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Originally posted by andybhoy
TBWP is probably the worst movie I've ever seen (and I've seen a good couple of thousand movies). There was no suspense, no scare, no surprises, no tension, no empathy for the characters, not even a slight raising of the blood pressure
What he said.
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As a side note - i hated the Blair Witch Project, but for Film studies we had to write a paper on either the opening of Urban Legends(?!?), The opening of Scream 2 or the end of Blair Witch project - i wrote on Blair Witch because i just seen the other 2 so many times - and it turned out i got an A for it...which was nice. Now though after studying it i enjoy it far more and i can see why people threw up/were scared.
But i digress.
For me It's A.I., Requiem For A Dream and Heat - oh and lest we forget the Toy Story movies.
So far that's all - though Im sure LOTR will slip in there eventually.
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Home alone 2 is the epitomy of a truly classic film. Using a post modern sub-ironic slant , it tackles the issues that are of true importance to humanity.
The film is of such importance that though I have never seen the it, it's dramatic impact has changed humanity from being a provincial inward looking globe , to being at the forefront of universal politics .
By the way what happened to that annoying little chap in it?
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...he got married and divorced...
. . . :smokin: . . .
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Donnie Darko
Memento
Fight Club
Fargo (& coen stuff generally)
Magnolia the frogs bit is a great device for the ending top stuff
Usual Suspects
Tenenbaums (prefered Zoolander myself mainly due to Mugatu - they should have used more of the outtakes in the main film, but gene hackman was great in this)
Unbreakable (not sixth sense)
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Just going back to TBWP, it was original when it came out... was a good idea and the way they publicised it was clever too. Just a shame it was so dull really ;)
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Most of the truly great movies came out in the last 8 years if you listen to me :D
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I do agree there don't seem to be as many 'great' movies being made from 95ish. A agree with some of the films listed but the only two I would count as being truly great are Requiem for a Dream and Lost Highway. I'm tempted to say Memento too, but the other two *really* blow me away and are just on another level. Actually, Festen is worth a mention too cos that also blew me away when I saw it at the cinema. Didn't think of that straight away as I don't have it on DVD (no UK or US release although amazon.com has it down as released January 1, 2010 :nuts: ).
When it comes to action movies very little recently has been anywhere near as good as the classics (Terminator 1&2, Robocop, Predator, Die Hard), although I was very impressed by Blade 2.
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I think probably American Beauty will stand the test of time, and also maybe Trainspotting. Gladiator will continue to be enjoyed and aclaimed as well, I think. I notice no one has mentioned TPM or AOTC!
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I like threads like thse as people may list slightly obscure films you may not have seen or heard of - gives you a chance to check them out
On the other hand when someone nominates Home Alone 2 and the recent Star Wars movies as "truly great" film - fraid all I can do is shake my head and roll my eyes :)
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O Brother Where Art Thou
The Thin Red Line
Saving Private Ryan
Gladiator
Black Hawk Down
The Last Broadcast
Apollo 13
and although I don't think it carries any weight in terms of "greatness", I can't think of a better "suspend belief/no brains" adventure in the last few years than The Mummy.
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The much maligned on the forums The Matrix did the biz for me back in '99 as far as "eye-poppingly enjoyable" goes..and I had that "thrown out of the cinema" feeling for hours after.
There are none of my top twenty films released in the last 10 years..all are 70's and 80's. No..nothing.
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