Question:
I received my R4 edition of "Back to the Future" box set yesterday and saw the first disc last night. I was very impressed with both the pictue and sound quality, including DTS. The 3 disc set has all the extras announced by R1 and R2, has come out several months before either of those regions and at less than £20 for the box set including delivery is a fantastic value. The Aussies have got it right this time!
Yer
Got mine aswell
Watch 1st disc + extras and watch 2nd disc extras
Very nice indeed.Thought the picture was a little soft and grainy but nothing most other 1985 films dont have.
Didnt watch it in DTS !!!! arrrrhhhhh
Now i gota watch it again :norty:
Originally posted by Raigmore
I received my R4 edition of "Back to the Future" box set yesterday and saw the first disc last night. ...The 3 disc set has all the extras announced by R1 and R2.
Err no it doesn't. The Region 1 will have a commentary (or commentaries) by Michael J Fox and a few other extras not on R4.
Just noticed on the back of the box there is a sticker over the top of the original "Bonus Features"
I wonder what it said underneath originaly :rolleyes:
Watched the 2nd film last night with my 6 year old.He loved it.
Story realy does ya head in :nuts:
Originally posted by Spooksta
I wonder what it said underneath originaly :rolleyes:
If you look in this thread then all will be revealed.
Watched the first one last night, even better then what I remember. :clap:
Hi,
Just watched Back To The Future (1st movie) from the Region 4 Boxset - SUPERB
All I will say is that based on the first disc this set has been a bargain at £17.99 from CD WOW
Picture quality is excellent for a movie from 1985 and the DTS soundtrack is solid - even if its not reference quality - it serves the film perfectly.
What are u waiting for? - buy this boxset!
Cheers
:clap:
Love my boxset also.
Watched 15mins of the commentary last night. They dont talk about each scene, just general thoughts on the film. Is this right or do they talk about scenes later on.? Would prefer a scene by scene basis.
I think that when you get a sceen by sceen commentary the director/actors are watching the film as they chat (obviously)
The ones where they dont do not watch the film just have a kind of interview and run on about the film till they are bored.
Sceen by sceen is much more interesting obviously but is probably harder to get the people to do..
Well, here's my thoughts on the set:
Picture: Good, but not great. Looked very PAL, if you know what I mean - colourful and bright, but lacks fine detail in the backgrounds, which I put down to over-compression. The print used is very clean. No digital artifacts that I could see. Little edge-enhancement. It reminds me of Jurassic Park R2 (another Universal title), in that it looks fine, but not very film-like.
Sound: Dolby Digital - Fine, if a little shrill and lacking in bass. Directionality is OK for films of this age. Not very dynamic - again, I put this down to over-compression and a low bitrate. DTS - slightly nicer sounding, but on disc 3 it is ever so slightly out of synch, so not my track of preference.
Extras: Haven't watched them all, but seem fine. Nothing I'll watch more than once or twice, tho. The commentary is just OK. A lot of the footage is in poor shape, and has undergone a poor NTSC -> PAL transfer. The menus suck - virtually static with a tiny bit of animation, a little music and garish fonts. The transitions between each screen are annoying as hell.
Packaging: Basic but pretty. A nice booklet inside, and the disc-art is nice (if shoddily printed). The plastic clasps are fantastic.
Overall: An OK stop-over for those wanting the complete set, but I wouldn't recommend it. The DTS track is a waste of space, the picture and sound could (and probably will) be improved upon, the extras are nowhere near comprehensive and the presentation is rushed, to say the least.
Wouldnt recommend it, are you on crack ?!.
Its £6 a film you nutter !. :shocker:
As the R1 only gains commentaries which are debateable in quality for a higher price are you suggesting people avoid the dvd release altogether ?.
Sorry, I actually meant that I wouldn't recommend the set to those who are contemplating getting the R1 eventually.
Also, there are many more differences than you realise between the R1 and R4 sets:
- more documentary footage for parts 2 and 3
- part 3's EPK featurette, re-edited and including more contribution from the actors
- 2 more deleted scenes and an extended scene for part 1
- SCENE SPECIFIC commentaries for each movie, plus commentary on the deleted scenes
- Michael J. Fox's commentary on a small portion of part 1 (not sure if this is seperate or edited into one of the others)
- DVD-ROM material including screenplays and alternate scripts
- possible behind the scenes material on the BTTF Ride at Universal Studios
- packaging with new Drew Struzan artwork to match the original posters
- keep case (for those that like this sort of thing)
- no DTS track, so the bitrate of the DD track will be upped and hopefully the picture will have more detail
- possibly nicer menus, more attention to detail and less bugs?
Sounds like enough for me to upgrade, if only to hear Alan Silvestri's fantastic score at its original speed.
OK but you've written that out in a way that the extras for the R1 appear more meaty than what they actually are, plus theres alot of guesswork going on.
Other than the commentary tracks your only really getting a couple of deleted scenes thats worth noting & what ever storage space is gained from dropping the DTS track will be taken up by these extras your listing.
I dont consider dvdrom notes extras to begin with & the packaging issues seem irrelevent as its horses for courses really.
Personally I'd rather have the PAL packaging than those bright blue amarays.
OK, ignoring the improvements to the documentaries and deleted scenes, plus the scripts (which to me are quite an interesting addition) and possibility of other small additions and improvements to the overall presentation (which is the least admirable thing about the R4 set, IMHO), you are still getting a proper commentary for each movie with the R1 set. I know commentaries are not everyone's favourite extra, but I find them to be most insightful if done well. I have high hopes for these, obviously!
I guess if PAL is your thing, and you'd rather not pay the extra, then the R4 set would be the best overall package. However, it all seems rather unfinished to me, and I'd happily pay that little bit extra for a high quality set of DVDs.
It's like Lord of the Rings - if the R2/R4 4 disc set was released a couple of months early for £10 less than the R1 set, but with commentaries and a couple of deleted scenes missing, I'd certainly buy it. However, I'd get rid of it in a flash when the finished set was available, regardless of price and packaging!
I'm not a big commetary listener so the MJF snippets really don't bother me in the slightest. I'm perfectly happy with my R4 set.
For £18 you cannot possibly go wrong. It is excellent.
I may swap but ony if the R1 is much better, TBH I doubt that it will be.
As far as PAL speedup is concerned I didn't notice it too much in BTTF. I watched Superman last night on R2 for first time and that was horribly fast and up about a semitone!
Another :thumbs: for the R4, can't say I'm to bothered about extra commentaries and as far as I'm concerned the image of the DeLorean and the flames against a black background is far superior to the bright blue Fisher-Price style packaging the R1 appears to have got stuck with.
This is really turning into a war, i have read on several forums the R4 vs R1 BTTF debate.
My points:
1. why have they done this, obviously to make money and maybe to use down under as the guinea pig (any anyone worldwide with multiregion or it turns out any UK user, inc. PSX2 user!).
2. It turns into price & DTS vs. extras and a longer wearing case (but not as good looking).
3. Is the R2 (official! release) going to have the same extras as the R1? anyone got any evidence on this.
4. Commentaries - I like 'em, if done well, I reckon that the two Bobs could be nominees for the "boring as hell" catergory and the MJF stuff is going to be so brief.
5. Ntsc vs Pal, is it just speed? I am sorry but Ntsc seems a worse picture, it must be with less lines.
6. The "over £18.00 tax risk" - the R1 could cost more than some think.
7. The menus look fine to me - I prefer uncluttered menus, find what you are looking for quickly - like the current LOTR release.
8. Some more deleted scenes are of interest, but they are so rough that they have limited interest.
9. I doubt very much the picture will get any better.
Anyway in conclusion its a :thumbs: for R4/R2 (Australian), its a total bargain for £17.49 and part II was far better than I remembered, i love the paradox. now onto part III (i have never seen it).
1. No, Universal could not get the rights to release the film early in the US, but internationally it was no problem. Therefore they are working more towards the December release date, and the Aus/UK releases are 'work in progress' versions.
2. Pretty much, although as I said the DTS track on Back To The Future III was a little out of synch, so I'll be glad to just get a solid DD track (rather than the low-bitrate DD track on the R4/R2 release). I have to say, the R1 packaging is growing on me, if only because of the new Drew Struzan artwork.
3. R2 is going to be the same as R4 - hence why the current release is dual-encoded. The R1 ('domestic' version) is exclusive to the U.S. and Canada.
4. I'll reserve judgement, although on the current commentary they seem lively enough. I'm looking forward to hearing Fox's contribution, no matter how short, as I have the utmost respect for the guy. :)
5. Well, this is a debate that has raged on for ages. NTSC vs. PAL. Resolution vs. Speed. Also bear in mind that with the DTS track gone (which takes up a hell of a lot of space), and with the lower resolution, the NTSC version should have room for a better compression job. However, many of you on here are satisfied with the look of the R4/R2 version so I'll keep my mouth shut about that.
6. Not from ********* and Play.com, to mention but a couple, who ship domestically or from somewhere in Europe (less customs risk).
7. Well, this is down to personal preference. I hate them, not because they are virtually static, but because the potential for great menus was vast. Remember Ghostbusters? That was a great menu, and simple too. After all the years of waiting, I expected Universal to at least put some effort in, and do proper transitions rather than putting an abrupt, repetitve clip between each menu.
8. True, this is a minor addition. For completists only, I guess.
9. See point 5.
I agree the R4 is a bargain (if you paid under £20 for it....grrrrrr), but I'm one of those sad collectors who will go out of their way (and their budget) to obtain the most complete version. :D
Id like to see what Eric Stoltz filmed bits were like.Anyone know how long he was playing the part of Marty untill they went for MJF ?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SithLordSi
1. No, Universal could not get the rights to release the film early in the US, but internationally it was no problem. Therefore they are working more towards the December release date, and the Aus/UK releases are 'work in progress' versions.
Far from a work in progress.
The PAL release is complete.
The added bits and bobs on the R1 are mainly there to try and stop the die hard fans in the US from importing and a way of justifying a 4 month wait until its released.
Its similar to Japan where in order to combat the bootleggers and importers, the domestic release of CDs/Movies will often contain a few extra bits and pieces to try and prevent people from taking the early (and often cheaper) product from abroad.
2. Pretty much, although as I said the DTS track on Back To The Future III was a little out of synch, so I'll be glad to just get a solid DD track (rather than the low-bitrate DD track on the R4/R2 release). I have to say, the R1 packaging is growing on me, if only because of the new Drew Struzan artwork.
Again, if the R1 will contain so many great extras which are void on the R2/R4, then where is the room for this extra bitrate 5.1 track you speak of ?. Theres every possiblity that the R1 will have a lower bitrate than the R2/R4, especially if these 'extra' extras are as great and as grand as your implying (or should that be guessing ?).
3. R2 is going to be the same as R4 - hence why the current release is dual-encoded. The R1 ('domestic' version) is exclusive to the U.S. and Canada.
Again, guesswork on your part.
Just because a dvd is duel encoded does not mean it will be identical on all regions.
Having said that the R2 isnt even worth considering because even if it does contain 'extra' extras like the R1, it will no doubt be far higher priced.
4. I'll reserve judgement, although on the current commentary they seem lively enough. I'm looking forward to hearing Fox's contribution, no matter how short, as I have the utmost respect for the guy. :)
The commentaries are the only reason for considering the R1 over the R4. But the quality seems to be questionable to say the least. I'll wait and find out how good the commentary parts are before I'd stick my neck out and say it offers a huge advantage over any other region.
I'd imagine you could probably download MJFOX's contribution if its as breif as whats to be believed.
5. Well, this is a debate that has raged on for ages. NTSC vs. PAL. Resolution vs. Speed. Also bear in mind that with the DTS track gone (which takes up a hell of a lot of space), and with the lower resolution, the NTSC version should have room for a better compression job. However, many of you on here are satisfied with the look of the R4/R2 version so I'll keep my mouth shut about that.
Guess work on your part again.
Theres absolutely no reason to think the R1 will have a better transfer or audio than any other region.
Given that the distributors have been quick to praise these exclusive features on the R1, dont you think that if true, they would equally be singing praises about the new and improve R1 Audio and Visuals ?.
and again, you seem to be overlooking the fact that the DTS track was dropped from the R1 because it couldnt fit. If the DTS track has been replaced with so many great extras then theres every possibilty that the R1 transfer will still need more compressing & the audio will be a lower bitrate than its PAL counterpart.
Unless I read or hear something that explicitly states the R1 will have improved visuals and audio theres absolutely no reason to think otherwise.
Theres no point in guessing.
6. Not from ********* and Play.com, to mention but a couple, who ship domestically or from somewhere in Europe (less customs risk).
Play are a customs risk for R1 orders, and ordering from ********* will cost far more than a supplier whos not customs friendly (not to mention the R4) so the customs risk becomes irrelevent when dealing with these suppliers.
As for the supposed sub-par transfer on the R4 Pal edition its worth pointing out that michaeldvd.com.au are one of the most strictest review sites when it comes to audio and visuals on dvd.
Taken from Michaeldvd.com.au -
BTTF - Transfer = 5/5
BTTF2 - Transfer = 5/5
BTTF3 - Transfer = 5/5
Thats good enough for me.
Maybe those who are having problems have a home set up which hinders the PAL format and favours NTSC ?.
Go no complaints with either picture quality or sound (haven't listened to the DTS track).
Packaging too is very nice & looks a lot better than the region 1, although it's a shame it's a digipack.
However, I think I'll be getting the region 1 copy as well though as I'd really like scene specific commentaries for each film.
The "animated anecdotes" that pop up are good but too few & far between & only appear on the first film.
I'd never noticed the "Twin Pine/Lone Pine Mall bit before & I bet all the films are littered with bits like that
A good stop gap though!
Cheers, Paul
1. Maybe it’s not a work in progress, but I certainly consider the R4 release to be incomplete. In my opinion, the R4 contains any material that the director and producer happened to have completed by the time Universal Australia wanted to release it.
2. I’m not talking about an “extra-bitrate” Dolby Digital track, but a standard-bitrate Dolby Digital track. The bitrate on the R2/R4 track release is lower than usual – closer to 380kbps than 450kbps, I think - to make extra space for the PAL MPEG-2 files, which take up considerably more space than the NTSC MPEG-2 files. As the commentary for each disc will only take up half the space of the R4’s DTS track, and as the other extras are modest in size at best (I never stated they were “grand” :rolleyes: ), I can see no reason why they can’t fit all the extras onto each disc, and deliver a standard-bitrate Dolby Digital track, and possibly allow a little more room for the movie itself, thereby lowering the compression and upping the bitrate.
3. And no, I’m not just blindly guessing that the R2 will be the same as the R4 – it stands to reason, judging by the confirmation that none of the new extras will grace the “international” versions (this includes the UK release). If any changes to the discs do occur, I suspect they will be of a small nature, such as copyright notices. So it was an informed guess, not a ‘stab in the dark’.
4. It is only *your opinion* that the commentaries are the only reason for choosing the R1 – I have listed other reasons that are important, in *my opinion*. And how can you say that the quality of the R1 exclusive commentaries seems “questionable to say the least”? Your post smacks of hypocrisy! Having had a go at me for “speculating”, you then make wild, unfounded statements like this! I’ll tell you what I find “questionable”, quality-wise – putting a Q&A session alongside the movie and calling it a commentary. Oh, and by the way – if you re-read my post thoroughly, you’ll see that I too am reserving judgement. However, I simply choose to do it with optimism! :)
5. I said “should”, not “will”. By my calculations, as I have already stated, with the DTS track gone and the video encoded in NTSC, there will be a big chunk of space available on the R1 release. Even with the additional commentary and other extras (which, combined, add up to a only a few more minutes of video), I still don’t think they will be rammed for space. This is why the feature’s MPEG-2 video may have a slightly higher bitrate than on the R2/R4 release. There is no reason why the R1 should be more compressed. The reason why Universal Home Video aren’t singing the praises of the improved audio and visuals, is because the vast majority of consumers wouldn’t notice, and wouldn’t have even seen the PAL release. It is only audiophiles and videophiles who will be concerned with such stuff. So the only place you’ll be hearing about improvements, if there are any, are in reviews where they directly compare the two on decent equipment. So informed guesswork *is* necessary, if you are thinking about buying the R1, because no such reviews exist yet.
6. OK, point taken about Play and *********. As for the R4 review you refer to – I simply don’t agree with his findings. I noticed quite obvious blocking in a handful shots, just skimming through the movie when I first got it. I guess I’m just more nitpicky than some. It’s certainly a good transfer, just not 5/5 in all areas (which implies reference quality). If you’re prepared to believe this guy, then fine, but I almost never trust reviews and always make my own mind up. And the idea that my set-up “hinders” PAL material is one that I seriously doubt as I’ve seen it produce stellar, reference quality PAL material (IMHO, of course).
But 5/5 for the transfer from michaeldvd.com.au doesnt suggest 'reference' quality, it suggests its the best the film can ever realisically look on the dvd format.
Like I said previously, michaeldvd.com.au is quite possibly the most hardest site on the net for audio and visual quality even going as far as to list exact times to the second when faults and problems happen.
Originally posted by CLH
I watched Superman last night on R2 for first time and that was horribly fast and up about a semitone!
i dont think you should notice unless side by side comparison or you listen to the soundtrack on CD a lot.
but i did notice with Superman, but someone mentioned it was actually a fault with sound mastering, they hit the wrong note, it happens at the beginning credit sequence right ?
i think you can notcie the wierd out of tuneness on the all versions of Superman.
Originally posted by Spooksta
Id like to see what Eric Stoltz filmed bits were like. Anyone know how long he was playing the part of Marty untill they went for MJF ?
i think they shot for about two weeks with eric stoltz. the whole scene at twin pines mall was shot and various footage between marty and george mcfly. however, saying "until they went for MJF" is slightly misleading.
zemeckis and bob gale had always envisioned michael j. fox in the role as marty, being familiar with him from his role as a similarly-aged teenager to marty in family ties, but they were told he was unavailable due to the intense schedule on the tv show. so they cast about for an alternative and came up with stoltz.
during the shooting the scenes mentioned above, zemeckis became increasingly concerned about the way stoltz was playing marty. zemeckis had always envisioned him as the architypal teenager, but stoltz (at 23) was playing him older. too old for zemeckis. so he went back to MJF (also 23, but looked younger and played marty more like a teenager), explained the situation and in the end MJF decided to do the movie - often dashing straight from a full day's shooting on family ties to shoot BTTF scenes at night. stoltz basically just got fired!
that's my understanding of it anyway. might not be 100% accurate as it is my generally accumulated knowledge, plus some stuff from browsing a dvd mag in whsmiths this morning! :)
I received the set yesterday to my great delight and was most impressed with the picture quality, IMO it's fantastic.
I can't really see how the R1 could be much of an improvement -- re the picture quality I mean.
Extras aren't terrific -- Laurent Bouzereau's documentaries are usually wonderful but he seems to be at the disadvantage of only having spoken to MJF & the two Bobs for these ones. A shame they couldn't have been more extensive (Christopher Lloyd, Lea Thompson, Mary Steenburgen, Thomas F Wilson, Alan Silvestri even -- where were they all?!) but the R1 isn't going to improve on this front either.
As for PAL speedup, as I always say, I wish I'd never heard of it, and then I bet I'd never have noticed it. I don't think I'll be upgrading come December, but if I do it'll be for the extras.
I'd never noticed the "Twin Pine/Lone Pine Mall bit before & I bet all the films are littered with bits like that
If you liked that then look out for the names on the various containers that dump manure on Bif in each film :clap: :clap: :clap:
The interfilm continuity is a joy to behold.
Personally when I first saw the DVD (on my 17" monitor) I thought there was a lot of grain, but then today I watched it on a friend's 29" Sony TV and the grain wasn't visible and the picture was sharp and clear. It wouldn't surprise me if the bitrate on the R1 version was the same as for the R4 soundtrack.
R4 or R1? I think the best thing to do is wait for the R1 reviews instead of trading opinions that may or not be accurate - remember, the R1 details haven't been finalised yet. At the moment I don't think their's enough extra on the R1 to justify buying it over the R4 but that could change if they come up with some more varied extras.
Having now watched all three movies thoroughly, I am happy to admit that I was a little harsh regarding the picture quality. In fact, aside from the handful of shots I originally identified as looking a bit rough, I can't think of any improvements that could be made to the picture, bar a little more shadow-detail (some night shots looked a little overwhelmed with grain, or simply a bit murky). So, while the prospect of a higher bitrate video track got me interested, I can't imagine the R1 looking any better.
On the other hand, I still feel that the DD track could use a little less compression - instruments like trumpets sounded too harsh and shrill, surely down to overcompression. Some raised voices also seemed to peak with a little distortion, which may or may not be inherent in the original dialogue stems. DTS made things better, but like I said the DTS track on disc three was annoyingly out-of-synch.
And my opinion about the menus and extras hasn't changed - good, but not good enough considering how long we've been waiting. Roll on R1.
There is no synch problem on my disc 3 :confused:
It is so slight that I didn't notice it at first. I wouldn't expect most people to notice, as it's only about a frame out. I was lipsynching some slowmotion footage to a song using Final Cut Pro today, and I was trying to get it perfectly in synch. My mate, who was helping me film the footage, thought it looked perfect, but I could still see vowels that came too late, or slightly too early. 1/25 of a second is a small delay, but to my eye it is incredibly noticeable. It sends me into a trance-like state when watching slightly out-of-synch footage, because I'm forever concentrating on the mouths and not really taking in what's being said.
BTW, last night's Angel on C4 had audio that was slightly behind the video. Twas v. noticeable to me, although my mum and step-dad didn't notice. Same with Toy Story on BBC1.
Then again, could just be a faulty disc. But I doubt just one disc in a batch of hundreds would have an isolated problem, which would be caused by a fault with the master rather than a fault with the pressing. Or I suppose it could be my player, although I've only ever had lipsynch probs with one other disc - Moulin Rouge DTS, which was confirmed by many others as faulty.
am i the only one who has pretty much forgotten about buying PAL releases for major films that i intend to keep for a long time, and especially where the sound has a major part to play and is done so well (i.e ANY major Zemeckis film!!)... i finally made my mind up now after doing some comparisons... the final one being LOTR... (where the R1 sound just CREAMED the R2!!)
Firstly, PAL does look better, sometimes a lot better (i've got a big tv, so i really can see the difference) although i may be the only one, but PAL pictures sometimes seem slightly squashed to me, and it's true when i measure the picture... again this isn't a major issue on Tv's smaller than say 30"... but on my 43"Tv, there can sometimes be a 1/2 -- 1inch of height difference in NTSC/PAL picture... but forget about that.. maybe my equipment is crap... :notworthy
But there is one thing i have learnt, and that is the sound on NTSC is by and far much better than PAL... I don't remember ever feeling that true Home Theatre Feeling when watching an R2/R4, even if it is DTS and is a film with a kick ass soundtrack.. sure the surround speakers are in action.. but something overall is just missing... i feel the tracks to be whiney and limp... and the bass seems lacking... :|
i have a feeling the R1 DD5.1 will sound stronger and have a more real Cinema feeling than any of the PAL DTS tracks. And i've always noted that R1 packagaing in all it's little nuances are generally better than any R2/R4... so at the end of the day i'll be going for the R1.. the packaging may not be as immediately good looking, and the NTSC will have slightly less resolution, but at least i know i'm watching the film in more or less the way it's meant to be.. not speeded up and drowned down by 4%!!
and i don't care to pay near 2x as much, it's BTTF******F man!!!
so anyone else who takes sound so seriously on the same wavelength as me???
I totally agree - there are some movies that I've had to buy R2 for (mostly HKL discs, foreign movies etc.), but most of the time I go for R1. By the way, maybe PAL stuff looks squashed on your setup because your TV's calibrated differently for 50Hz and 60Hz material? Just a thought. I've never seen a difference in dimensions myself, but I do find the speedup incredibly annoying.
BTW, I also checked out the DTS tracks on BTTF and BTTF2. They also are one frame out of synch, or thereabouts. In parts of BTTF, this is not so noticeable, because a lot of the looped dialogue is slightly early, funnily enough. However, the sound effects and live sound are what I go on, and this was most definitely more in-synch on the DD tracks.
Lets not turn this into a PAL speed up issue though because it has very little to do with this individual thread, rather its a matter of personal taste which could be applied to 'all' dvd releases.
I do think its a little naive to dismiss PAL/R2 audiotracks completely. Im sure there are plenty of cases where the R2, despite the slight speed up wipes the floor with the NTSC/R1 release.
BTW - I brought LOTR R4 and consider the audiotrack to be of reference quality. I wonder if the R2 has some kind of fault ?.
Agreed - I didn't mean to go off topic. I think you might be right about the R2 FOTR. I wouldn't be surprised if the R4 was vastly superior, as it was handled by Village Roadshow rather than EiV. Apparently, they pitch corrected the track at the request of Peter Jackson, although I've heard a pitch-corrected track of their's before - Magnolia R4 - and it was pretty dire, with a slight 'blip' in the soundtrack every couple of seconds or so. Don't know if FOTR is the same, but I guess you'd have to have a keen ear and a decent setup to hear any defect.
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Yer
Got mine aswell
Watch 1st disc + extras and watch 2nd disc extras
Very nice indeed.Thought the picture was a little soft and grainy but nothing most other 1985 films dont have.
Didnt watch it in DTS !!!! arrrrhhhhh
Now i gota watch it again :norty:
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Originally posted by Raigmore
I received my R4 edition of "Back to the Future" box set yesterday and saw the first disc last night. ...The 3 disc set has all the extras announced by R1 and R2.
Err no it doesn't. The Region 1 will have a commentary (or commentaries) by Michael J Fox and a few other extras not on R4.
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Just noticed on the back of the box there is a sticker over the top of the original "Bonus Features"
I wonder what it said underneath originaly :rolleyes:
Watched the 2nd film last night with my 6 year old.He loved it.
Story realy does ya head in :nuts:
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Originally posted by Spooksta
I wonder what it said underneath originaly :rolleyes:
If you look in this thread then all will be revealed.
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Watched the first one last night, even better then what I remember. :clap:
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Hi,
Just watched Back To The Future (1st movie) from the Region 4 Boxset - SUPERB
All I will say is that based on the first disc this set has been a bargain at £17.99 from CD WOW
Picture quality is excellent for a movie from 1985 and the DTS soundtrack is solid - even if its not reference quality - it serves the film perfectly.
What are u waiting for? - buy this boxset!
Cheers
:clap:
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Love my boxset also.
Watched 15mins of the commentary last night. They dont talk about each scene, just general thoughts on the film. Is this right or do they talk about scenes later on.? Would prefer a scene by scene basis.
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I think that when you get a sceen by sceen commentary the director/actors are watching the film as they chat (obviously)
The ones where they dont do not watch the film just have a kind of interview and run on about the film till they are bored.
Sceen by sceen is much more interesting obviously but is probably harder to get the people to do..
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Well, here's my thoughts on the set:
Picture: Good, but not great. Looked very PAL, if you know what I mean - colourful and bright, but lacks fine detail in the backgrounds, which I put down to over-compression. The print used is very clean. No digital artifacts that I could see. Little edge-enhancement. It reminds me of Jurassic Park R2 (another Universal title), in that it looks fine, but not very film-like.
Sound: Dolby Digital - Fine, if a little shrill and lacking in bass. Directionality is OK for films of this age. Not very dynamic - again, I put this down to over-compression and a low bitrate. DTS - slightly nicer sounding, but on disc 3 it is ever so slightly out of synch, so not my track of preference.
Extras: Haven't watched them all, but seem fine. Nothing I'll watch more than once or twice, tho. The commentary is just OK. A lot of the footage is in poor shape, and has undergone a poor NTSC -> PAL transfer. The menus suck - virtually static with a tiny bit of animation, a little music and garish fonts. The transitions between each screen are annoying as hell.
Packaging: Basic but pretty. A nice booklet inside, and the disc-art is nice (if shoddily printed). The plastic clasps are fantastic.
Overall: An OK stop-over for those wanting the complete set, but I wouldn't recommend it. The DTS track is a waste of space, the picture and sound could (and probably will) be improved upon, the extras are nowhere near comprehensive and the presentation is rushed, to say the least.
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Wouldnt recommend it, are you on crack ?!.
Its £6 a film you nutter !. :shocker:
As the R1 only gains commentaries which are debateable in quality for a higher price are you suggesting people avoid the dvd release altogether ?.
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Sorry, I actually meant that I wouldn't recommend the set to those who are contemplating getting the R1 eventually.
Also, there are many more differences than you realise between the R1 and R4 sets:
- more documentary footage for parts 2 and 3
- part 3's EPK featurette, re-edited and including more contribution from the actors
- 2 more deleted scenes and an extended scene for part 1
- SCENE SPECIFIC commentaries for each movie, plus commentary on the deleted scenes
- Michael J. Fox's commentary on a small portion of part 1 (not sure if this is seperate or edited into one of the others)
- DVD-ROM material including screenplays and alternate scripts
- possible behind the scenes material on the BTTF Ride at Universal Studios
- packaging with new Drew Struzan artwork to match the original posters
- keep case (for those that like this sort of thing)
- no DTS track, so the bitrate of the DD track will be upped and hopefully the picture will have more detail
- possibly nicer menus, more attention to detail and less bugs?
Sounds like enough for me to upgrade, if only to hear Alan Silvestri's fantastic score at its original speed.
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OK but you've written that out in a way that the extras for the R1 appear more meaty than what they actually are, plus theres alot of guesswork going on.
Other than the commentary tracks your only really getting a couple of deleted scenes thats worth noting & what ever storage space is gained from dropping the DTS track will be taken up by these extras your listing.
I dont consider dvdrom notes extras to begin with & the packaging issues seem irrelevent as its horses for courses really.
Personally I'd rather have the PAL packaging than those bright blue amarays.
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OK, ignoring the improvements to the documentaries and deleted scenes, plus the scripts (which to me are quite an interesting addition) and possibility of other small additions and improvements to the overall presentation (which is the least admirable thing about the R4 set, IMHO), you are still getting a proper commentary for each movie with the R1 set. I know commentaries are not everyone's favourite extra, but I find them to be most insightful if done well. I have high hopes for these, obviously!
I guess if PAL is your thing, and you'd rather not pay the extra, then the R4 set would be the best overall package. However, it all seems rather unfinished to me, and I'd happily pay that little bit extra for a high quality set of DVDs.
It's like Lord of the Rings - if the R2/R4 4 disc set was released a couple of months early for £10 less than the R1 set, but with commentaries and a couple of deleted scenes missing, I'd certainly buy it. However, I'd get rid of it in a flash when the finished set was available, regardless of price and packaging!
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I'm not a big commetary listener so the MJF snippets really don't bother me in the slightest. I'm perfectly happy with my R4 set.
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For £18 you cannot possibly go wrong. It is excellent.
I may swap but ony if the R1 is much better, TBH I doubt that it will be.
As far as PAL speedup is concerned I didn't notice it too much in BTTF. I watched Superman last night on R2 for first time and that was horribly fast and up about a semitone!
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Another :thumbs: for the R4, can't say I'm to bothered about extra commentaries and as far as I'm concerned the image of the DeLorean and the flames against a black background is far superior to the bright blue Fisher-Price style packaging the R1 appears to have got stuck with.
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This is really turning into a war, i have read on several forums the R4 vs R1 BTTF debate.
My points:
1. why have they done this, obviously to make money and maybe to use down under as the guinea pig (any anyone worldwide with multiregion or it turns out any UK user, inc. PSX2 user!).
2. It turns into price & DTS vs. extras and a longer wearing case (but not as good looking).
3. Is the R2 (official! release) going to have the same extras as the R1? anyone got any evidence on this.
4. Commentaries - I like 'em, if done well, I reckon that the two Bobs could be nominees for the "boring as hell" catergory and the MJF stuff is going to be so brief.
5. Ntsc vs Pal, is it just speed? I am sorry but Ntsc seems a worse picture, it must be with less lines.
6. The "over £18.00 tax risk" - the R1 could cost more than some think.
7. The menus look fine to me - I prefer uncluttered menus, find what you are looking for quickly - like the current LOTR release.
8. Some more deleted scenes are of interest, but they are so rough that they have limited interest.
9. I doubt very much the picture will get any better.
Anyway in conclusion its a :thumbs: for R4/R2 (Australian), its a total bargain for £17.49 and part II was far better than I remembered, i love the paradox. now onto part III (i have never seen it).
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1. No, Universal could not get the rights to release the film early in the US, but internationally it was no problem. Therefore they are working more towards the December release date, and the Aus/UK releases are 'work in progress' versions.
2. Pretty much, although as I said the DTS track on Back To The Future III was a little out of synch, so I'll be glad to just get a solid DD track (rather than the low-bitrate DD track on the R4/R2 release). I have to say, the R1 packaging is growing on me, if only because of the new Drew Struzan artwork.
3. R2 is going to be the same as R4 - hence why the current release is dual-encoded. The R1 ('domestic' version) is exclusive to the U.S. and Canada.
4. I'll reserve judgement, although on the current commentary they seem lively enough. I'm looking forward to hearing Fox's contribution, no matter how short, as I have the utmost respect for the guy. :)
5. Well, this is a debate that has raged on for ages. NTSC vs. PAL. Resolution vs. Speed. Also bear in mind that with the DTS track gone (which takes up a hell of a lot of space), and with the lower resolution, the NTSC version should have room for a better compression job. However, many of you on here are satisfied with the look of the R4/R2 version so I'll keep my mouth shut about that.
6. Not from ********* and Play.com, to mention but a couple, who ship domestically or from somewhere in Europe (less customs risk).
7. Well, this is down to personal preference. I hate them, not because they are virtually static, but because the potential for great menus was vast. Remember Ghostbusters? That was a great menu, and simple too. After all the years of waiting, I expected Universal to at least put some effort in, and do proper transitions rather than putting an abrupt, repetitve clip between each menu.
8. True, this is a minor addition. For completists only, I guess.
9. See point 5.
I agree the R4 is a bargain (if you paid under £20 for it....grrrrrr), but I'm one of those sad collectors who will go out of their way (and their budget) to obtain the most complete version. :D
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Id like to see what Eric Stoltz filmed bits were like.Anyone know how long he was playing the part of Marty untill they went for MJF ?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by SithLordSi
1. No, Universal could not get the rights to release the film early in the US, but internationally it was no problem. Therefore they are working more towards the December release date, and the Aus/UK releases are 'work in progress' versions.
Far from a work in progress.
The PAL release is complete.
The added bits and bobs on the R1 are mainly there to try and stop the die hard fans in the US from importing and a way of justifying a 4 month wait until its released.
Its similar to Japan where in order to combat the bootleggers and importers, the domestic release of CDs/Movies will often contain a few extra bits and pieces to try and prevent people from taking the early (and often cheaper) product from abroad.
2. Pretty much, although as I said the DTS track on Back To The Future III was a little out of synch, so I'll be glad to just get a solid DD track (rather than the low-bitrate DD track on the R4/R2 release). I have to say, the R1 packaging is growing on me, if only because of the new Drew Struzan artwork.
Again, if the R1 will contain so many great extras which are void on the R2/R4, then where is the room for this extra bitrate 5.1 track you speak of ?. Theres every possiblity that the R1 will have a lower bitrate than the R2/R4, especially if these 'extra' extras are as great and as grand as your implying (or should that be guessing ?).
3. R2 is going to be the same as R4 - hence why the current release is dual-encoded. The R1 ('domestic' version) is exclusive to the U.S. and Canada.
Again, guesswork on your part.
Just because a dvd is duel encoded does not mean it will be identical on all regions.
Having said that the R2 isnt even worth considering because even if it does contain 'extra' extras like the R1, it will no doubt be far higher priced.
4. I'll reserve judgement, although on the current commentary they seem lively enough. I'm looking forward to hearing Fox's contribution, no matter how short, as I have the utmost respect for the guy. :)
The commentaries are the only reason for considering the R1 over the R4. But the quality seems to be questionable to say the least. I'll wait and find out how good the commentary parts are before I'd stick my neck out and say it offers a huge advantage over any other region.
I'd imagine you could probably download MJFOX's contribution if its as breif as whats to be believed.
5. Well, this is a debate that has raged on for ages. NTSC vs. PAL. Resolution vs. Speed. Also bear in mind that with the DTS track gone (which takes up a hell of a lot of space), and with the lower resolution, the NTSC version should have room for a better compression job. However, many of you on here are satisfied with the look of the R4/R2 version so I'll keep my mouth shut about that.
Guess work on your part again.
Theres absolutely no reason to think the R1 will have a better transfer or audio than any other region.
Given that the distributors have been quick to praise these exclusive features on the R1, dont you think that if true, they would equally be singing praises about the new and improve R1 Audio and Visuals ?.
and again, you seem to be overlooking the fact that the DTS track was dropped from the R1 because it couldnt fit. If the DTS track has been replaced with so many great extras then theres every possibilty that the R1 transfer will still need more compressing & the audio will be a lower bitrate than its PAL counterpart.
Unless I read or hear something that explicitly states the R1 will have improved visuals and audio theres absolutely no reason to think otherwise.
Theres no point in guessing.
6. Not from ********* and Play.com, to mention but a couple, who ship domestically or from somewhere in Europe (less customs risk).
Play are a customs risk for R1 orders, and ordering from ********* will cost far more than a supplier whos not customs friendly (not to mention the R4) so the customs risk becomes irrelevent when dealing with these suppliers.
As for the supposed sub-par transfer on the R4 Pal edition its worth pointing out that michaeldvd.com.au are one of the most strictest review sites when it comes to audio and visuals on dvd.
Taken from Michaeldvd.com.au -
BTTF - Transfer = 5/5
BTTF2 - Transfer = 5/5
BTTF3 - Transfer = 5/5
Thats good enough for me.
Maybe those who are having problems have a home set up which hinders the PAL format and favours NTSC ?.
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Go no complaints with either picture quality or sound (haven't listened to the DTS track).
Packaging too is very nice & looks a lot better than the region 1, although it's a shame it's a digipack.
However, I think I'll be getting the region 1 copy as well though as I'd really like scene specific commentaries for each film.
The "animated anecdotes" that pop up are good but too few & far between & only appear on the first film.
I'd never noticed the "Twin Pine/Lone Pine Mall bit before & I bet all the films are littered with bits like that
A good stop gap though!
Cheers, Paul
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1. Maybe it’s not a work in progress, but I certainly consider the R4 release to be incomplete. In my opinion, the R4 contains any material that the director and producer happened to have completed by the time Universal Australia wanted to release it.
2. I’m not talking about an “extra-bitrate” Dolby Digital track, but a standard-bitrate Dolby Digital track. The bitrate on the R2/R4 track release is lower than usual – closer to 380kbps than 450kbps, I think - to make extra space for the PAL MPEG-2 files, which take up considerably more space than the NTSC MPEG-2 files. As the commentary for each disc will only take up half the space of the R4’s DTS track, and as the other extras are modest in size at best (I never stated they were “grand” :rolleyes: ), I can see no reason why they can’t fit all the extras onto each disc, and deliver a standard-bitrate Dolby Digital track, and possibly allow a little more room for the movie itself, thereby lowering the compression and upping the bitrate.
3. And no, I’m not just blindly guessing that the R2 will be the same as the R4 – it stands to reason, judging by the confirmation that none of the new extras will grace the “international” versions (this includes the UK release). If any changes to the discs do occur, I suspect they will be of a small nature, such as copyright notices. So it was an informed guess, not a ‘stab in the dark’.
4. It is only *your opinion* that the commentaries are the only reason for choosing the R1 – I have listed other reasons that are important, in *my opinion*. And how can you say that the quality of the R1 exclusive commentaries seems “questionable to say the least”? Your post smacks of hypocrisy! Having had a go at me for “speculating”, you then make wild, unfounded statements like this! I’ll tell you what I find “questionable”, quality-wise – putting a Q&A session alongside the movie and calling it a commentary. Oh, and by the way – if you re-read my post thoroughly, you’ll see that I too am reserving judgement. However, I simply choose to do it with optimism! :)
5. I said “should”, not “will”. By my calculations, as I have already stated, with the DTS track gone and the video encoded in NTSC, there will be a big chunk of space available on the R1 release. Even with the additional commentary and other extras (which, combined, add up to a only a few more minutes of video), I still don’t think they will be rammed for space. This is why the feature’s MPEG-2 video may have a slightly higher bitrate than on the R2/R4 release. There is no reason why the R1 should be more compressed. The reason why Universal Home Video aren’t singing the praises of the improved audio and visuals, is because the vast majority of consumers wouldn’t notice, and wouldn’t have even seen the PAL release. It is only audiophiles and videophiles who will be concerned with such stuff. So the only place you’ll be hearing about improvements, if there are any, are in reviews where they directly compare the two on decent equipment. So informed guesswork *is* necessary, if you are thinking about buying the R1, because no such reviews exist yet.
6. OK, point taken about Play and *********. As for the R4 review you refer to – I simply don’t agree with his findings. I noticed quite obvious blocking in a handful shots, just skimming through the movie when I first got it. I guess I’m just more nitpicky than some. It’s certainly a good transfer, just not 5/5 in all areas (which implies reference quality). If you’re prepared to believe this guy, then fine, but I almost never trust reviews and always make my own mind up. And the idea that my set-up “hinders” PAL material is one that I seriously doubt as I’ve seen it produce stellar, reference quality PAL material (IMHO, of course).
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But 5/5 for the transfer from michaeldvd.com.au doesnt suggest 'reference' quality, it suggests its the best the film can ever realisically look on the dvd format.
Like I said previously, michaeldvd.com.au is quite possibly the most hardest site on the net for audio and visual quality even going as far as to list exact times to the second when faults and problems happen.
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Originally posted by CLH
I watched Superman last night on R2 for first time and that was horribly fast and up about a semitone!
i dont think you should notice unless side by side comparison or you listen to the soundtrack on CD a lot.
but i did notice with Superman, but someone mentioned it was actually a fault with sound mastering, they hit the wrong note, it happens at the beginning credit sequence right ?
i think you can notcie the wierd out of tuneness on the all versions of Superman.
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Originally posted by Spooksta
Id like to see what Eric Stoltz filmed bits were like. Anyone know how long he was playing the part of Marty untill they went for MJF ?
i think they shot for about two weeks with eric stoltz. the whole scene at twin pines mall was shot and various footage between marty and george mcfly. however, saying "until they went for MJF" is slightly misleading.
zemeckis and bob gale had always envisioned michael j. fox in the role as marty, being familiar with him from his role as a similarly-aged teenager to marty in family ties, but they were told he was unavailable due to the intense schedule on the tv show. so they cast about for an alternative and came up with stoltz.
during the shooting the scenes mentioned above, zemeckis became increasingly concerned about the way stoltz was playing marty. zemeckis had always envisioned him as the architypal teenager, but stoltz (at 23) was playing him older. too old for zemeckis. so he went back to MJF (also 23, but looked younger and played marty more like a teenager), explained the situation and in the end MJF decided to do the movie - often dashing straight from a full day's shooting on family ties to shoot BTTF scenes at night. stoltz basically just got fired!
that's my understanding of it anyway. might not be 100% accurate as it is my generally accumulated knowledge, plus some stuff from browsing a dvd mag in whsmiths this morning! :)
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I received the set yesterday to my great delight and was most impressed with the picture quality, IMO it's fantastic.
I can't really see how the R1 could be much of an improvement -- re the picture quality I mean.
Extras aren't terrific -- Laurent Bouzereau's documentaries are usually wonderful but he seems to be at the disadvantage of only having spoken to MJF & the two Bobs for these ones. A shame they couldn't have been more extensive (Christopher Lloyd, Lea Thompson, Mary Steenburgen, Thomas F Wilson, Alan Silvestri even -- where were they all?!) but the R1 isn't going to improve on this front either.
As for PAL speedup, as I always say, I wish I'd never heard of it, and then I bet I'd never have noticed it. I don't think I'll be upgrading come December, but if I do it'll be for the extras.
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I'd never noticed the "Twin Pine/Lone Pine Mall bit before & I bet all the films are littered with bits like that
If you liked that then look out for the names on the various containers that dump manure on Bif in each film :clap: :clap: :clap:
The interfilm continuity is a joy to behold.
Personally when I first saw the DVD (on my 17" monitor) I thought there was a lot of grain, but then today I watched it on a friend's 29" Sony TV and the grain wasn't visible and the picture was sharp and clear. It wouldn't surprise me if the bitrate on the R1 version was the same as for the R4 soundtrack.
R4 or R1? I think the best thing to do is wait for the R1 reviews instead of trading opinions that may or not be accurate - remember, the R1 details haven't been finalised yet. At the moment I don't think their's enough extra on the R1 to justify buying it over the R4 but that could change if they come up with some more varied extras.
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Having now watched all three movies thoroughly, I am happy to admit that I was a little harsh regarding the picture quality. In fact, aside from the handful of shots I originally identified as looking a bit rough, I can't think of any improvements that could be made to the picture, bar a little more shadow-detail (some night shots looked a little overwhelmed with grain, or simply a bit murky). So, while the prospect of a higher bitrate video track got me interested, I can't imagine the R1 looking any better.
On the other hand, I still feel that the DD track could use a little less compression - instruments like trumpets sounded too harsh and shrill, surely down to overcompression. Some raised voices also seemed to peak with a little distortion, which may or may not be inherent in the original dialogue stems. DTS made things better, but like I said the DTS track on disc three was annoyingly out-of-synch.
And my opinion about the menus and extras hasn't changed - good, but not good enough considering how long we've been waiting. Roll on R1.
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There is no synch problem on my disc 3 :confused:
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It is so slight that I didn't notice it at first. I wouldn't expect most people to notice, as it's only about a frame out. I was lipsynching some slowmotion footage to a song using Final Cut Pro today, and I was trying to get it perfectly in synch. My mate, who was helping me film the footage, thought it looked perfect, but I could still see vowels that came too late, or slightly too early. 1/25 of a second is a small delay, but to my eye it is incredibly noticeable. It sends me into a trance-like state when watching slightly out-of-synch footage, because I'm forever concentrating on the mouths and not really taking in what's being said.
BTW, last night's Angel on C4 had audio that was slightly behind the video. Twas v. noticeable to me, although my mum and step-dad didn't notice. Same with Toy Story on BBC1.
Then again, could just be a faulty disc. But I doubt just one disc in a batch of hundreds would have an isolated problem, which would be caused by a fault with the master rather than a fault with the pressing. Or I suppose it could be my player, although I've only ever had lipsynch probs with one other disc - Moulin Rouge DTS, which was confirmed by many others as faulty.
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am i the only one who has pretty much forgotten about buying PAL releases for major films that i intend to keep for a long time, and especially where the sound has a major part to play and is done so well (i.e ANY major Zemeckis film!!)... i finally made my mind up now after doing some comparisons... the final one being LOTR... (where the R1 sound just CREAMED the R2!!)
Firstly, PAL does look better, sometimes a lot better (i've got a big tv, so i really can see the difference) although i may be the only one, but PAL pictures sometimes seem slightly squashed to me, and it's true when i measure the picture... again this isn't a major issue on Tv's smaller than say 30"... but on my 43"Tv, there can sometimes be a 1/2 -- 1inch of height difference in NTSC/PAL picture... but forget about that.. maybe my equipment is crap... :notworthy
But there is one thing i have learnt, and that is the sound on NTSC is by and far much better than PAL... I don't remember ever feeling that true Home Theatre Feeling when watching an R2/R4, even if it is DTS and is a film with a kick ass soundtrack.. sure the surround speakers are in action.. but something overall is just missing... i feel the tracks to be whiney and limp... and the bass seems lacking... :|
i have a feeling the R1 DD5.1 will sound stronger and have a more real Cinema feeling than any of the PAL DTS tracks. And i've always noted that R1 packagaing in all it's little nuances are generally better than any R2/R4... so at the end of the day i'll be going for the R1.. the packaging may not be as immediately good looking, and the NTSC will have slightly less resolution, but at least i know i'm watching the film in more or less the way it's meant to be.. not speeded up and drowned down by 4%!!
and i don't care to pay near 2x as much, it's BTTF******F man!!!
so anyone else who takes sound so seriously on the same wavelength as me???
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I totally agree - there are some movies that I've had to buy R2 for (mostly HKL discs, foreign movies etc.), but most of the time I go for R1. By the way, maybe PAL stuff looks squashed on your setup because your TV's calibrated differently for 50Hz and 60Hz material? Just a thought. I've never seen a difference in dimensions myself, but I do find the speedup incredibly annoying.
BTW, I also checked out the DTS tracks on BTTF and BTTF2. They also are one frame out of synch, or thereabouts. In parts of BTTF, this is not so noticeable, because a lot of the looped dialogue is slightly early, funnily enough. However, the sound effects and live sound are what I go on, and this was most definitely more in-synch on the DD tracks.
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Lets not turn this into a PAL speed up issue though because it has very little to do with this individual thread, rather its a matter of personal taste which could be applied to 'all' dvd releases.
I do think its a little naive to dismiss PAL/R2 audiotracks completely. Im sure there are plenty of cases where the R2, despite the slight speed up wipes the floor with the NTSC/R1 release.
BTW - I brought LOTR R4 and consider the audiotrack to be of reference quality. I wonder if the R2 has some kind of fault ?.
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Agreed - I didn't mean to go off topic. I think you might be right about the R2 FOTR. I wouldn't be surprised if the R4 was vastly superior, as it was handled by Village Roadshow rather than EiV. Apparently, they pitch corrected the track at the request of Peter Jackson, although I've heard a pitch-corrected track of their's before - Magnolia R4 - and it was pretty dire, with a slight 'blip' in the soundtrack every couple of seconds or so. Don't know if FOTR is the same, but I guess you'd have to have a keen ear and a decent setup to hear any defect.
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