Question:
I was wondering if anyone can think of any Director's cuts that have been worse than the original film.
The only one I can think of is Last of the Mohicans DC
:rolleyes:
George Lucas EP1 and EP2.
not a bitter starwars fan then
:)
Terminator 2.
No need Jim.
It's too long as it is.
I think Terminator 2 is actually better with the extra scenes
Film is so good don't notice how long it goes on for
:smokin:
I expect a few people will end up posting about the Lethal Weapons, but I quite like having the extra scenes myself :p
Same with T2. Doesn't destroy the film for me.
Just that films like Almost Famous show how a good directors cut can enhance the film :)
Lethal Weapon 1 DC is far better than the original
The sniper scene speaks for itself
Dawn Of The Dead......
Terminator 2 R1 with the ultimate edtion of the film ROCKS
Tafsir:)
I got you all beat: Until the End of the World aka how to extend a 2 hour long boring film into a 5 hour long boring film.
Ya the dir. cut of Dawn Of The Dead. The extra mall scenes in the middle kill the film. Plus the r2 release is cut as well so it shouldnt really be called the directors cut:zzz:
Blade runner for me, I think the directors cut is absolute shineola
I thought T2's extra scenes were interesting but slowed the pace too much.
er jonathan e. i believe that there's an 8 hour cut of Until the End of the World....... ha!
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
The director's cut of Dawn of the Dead isn't really his preferred version of the film. It was a pre-release cut shown at Cannes. After that was shown, Romero cut the film down.
I have seen the "Director's Cut" and the European cut (Zombi), but not the theatrical version of the film.
I prefer the directors cuts of the Lethal Weapon series. OK they are bambustous nonsence but they make me laugh ad really cheer me up when I am feeling a tad down.
However I thought the DC of Bladerunner without the music and voiceover was a bit pants. Watchable yes, but still not as good as the original.
The DC of T2 I like but it does seem a little lengthy. A DC of the original Terminator might be interesting however.
T2's 'Learning to smile' scene is such a pointless waste of time, it wrecks the killer appeal of the T-101. I know he's meant to be become more human, next he will be Morris Dancing
Originally posted by Fred2002
However I thought the DC of Bladerunner without the music and voiceover was a bit pants. Watchable yes, but still not as good as the original.
the voiceover was terrible (on purpose i believe), blatantly put there to tell you a story that didn't need explaining. Dumbing down of the worst kind IMO.
Originally posted by threadkiller
Blade runner for me, I think the directors cut is absolute shineola
I'm trying to work out if that's a joke or not (apologies if it aint!) - the DC of bladerunner is much better to my mind
whas good about t2 ue is that if you hate the new version, then you can still watch the original version
T2 Directors Cut is the only example I can think of, where the extra footage has made the film worse, Arnie smiling - do me a favour!
'Lock Stock...' - the theatrical version is much better
It's hard to believe that the pile of steaming vomit known as "Plays With Camera", sorry "Dances With Wolves" could be worse, but the 4 hour Director's Cut is so horrible that every copy should be sealed in a hermetic vault for the rest of eternity.
I'd also reluctantly have to say that the DC of "Nixon" - a great film, possibly Stone's finest achievement - is too long. The stuff with Richard Helms is only interesting if you know the history, in which case it isn't really necessary.
Apocolypse Now Redux. Waste of ******* cash !
I liked the DC Lethal Weapons and T2.
I like Director's Cuts of all of the movies mentioned here, all that I've seen anyway.
Especialy Blade Runner and Apocalypse Now.
Paul490: You really should check out the theatrical release of Dawn Of The Dead. It is by far and away the best version.
Originally posted by jimto
er jonathan e. i believe that there's an 8 hour cut of Until the End of the World....... ha!
God help us all if there is. This is the one I saw:
A five-hour director's cut was shown on 6 December 1996 at the University of Washington, with director Wim Wenders attending, and at the National Film Theatre in London on Saturday 2nd July 1994.
Aliens DC.
Let's break up the tension by adding some really dull bits.
Oh and just to make sure there are absolutely no surprises show you exactly what happend to the coloney.
Let's break up the tension by adding some really dull bits.
And by adding extra bad performance by Bill Paxton
"We're a bunch of bad-assess...." :oh-hum:
director's cuts that have made a film worse
The Blues Brothers.
I actualy prefered the voiceover version of Bladerunner. I always saw it as a type of remake of the old black and white Sam Spade things where they talked over the film.
Worst fiddling for me was the special editions of the first three star wars.
It is difficult to tell with some movies because the original is so well known. Superman's extra scenes jarred because I grew up with that film but I can't deny that some of them integrated quite well.
A good additional question would be, "Which version will be remembered? Theatrical or DC?"
Blade Runner, The Abyss and Almost Famous (not seen yet, but would love to) seem destined to be remembered in their DC versions. Films like T2, the Star Wars Trilogy and Close Encounters seem to be mired in controversy, though, splitting fans and being famous because there is no definitive version.
Should we leave our movies alone??
Chorlton
Star Wars IV-VI
E.T.
Terminator 2
The Abyss
But I actually do think that all of the above was called "special editions" rather that DC's, whatever the difference might be...
I'm very happy for the DVDs of the last 2 movies mentioned, because I can choose between theatrical and DC. But I'm very concerned about Star Wars...!!! Also I don't like the idea of giving so much money for E.T. just to have the original cut.
The so called DC of Blade Runner killed the film for me.
Can't get the original on DVD!
As far as I know.:sad:
Originally posted by SpaceCoyote
The so called DC of Blade Runner killed the film for me.
Can't get the original on DVD!
As far as I know.:sad:
Apparently the original cut is on the upcoming Sp Ed. Once confirmed my Criterion CAV LD is hitting Ebay at the speed of light!
Originally posted by Paul490
The director's cut of Dawn of the Dead isn't really his preferred version of the film. It was a pre-release cut shown at Cannes. After that was shown, Romero cut the film down.
Rightly, because the long version <U>really</U> drags in the middle to no effect whatsoever.
I have seen the "Director's Cut" and the European cut (Zombi), but not the theatrical version of the film.
Which, ironically enough, is the closest to Romero's ideal! I actually quite like the Argento cut - it's faster-paced and more straightforwardly entertaining even if it junks a lot of the acerbic consumerist satire - but if I had to choose one version it would be the theatrical cut.
The new scenes in Aliens were interesting, but I wished they'd included the theatrical cut on the DVD, because it is much better paced.
Originally posted by Reno
The new scenes in Aliens were interesting, but I wished they'd included the theatrical cut on the DVD, because it is much better paced.
This was the one that first popped to mind for me. Interesting but wholely unnecessary. It would be nice if DCs had a branching option if possible.
On the whole, I tend to enjoy directors cuts but also on the whole, DCs have given me an appreciation setting limits and what goes on in the editing room.
Another vote for the DC of Bladerunner. Ruined the film for me.
I like the DCs of Bladerunner, Aliens and T2, all much better.
In the case of Bladerunner Original, don't forget the voice over was studio impossed and both Ridley and Ford hated it. Worse still is the tacked on outtake from The Shining at the end! :eek:.
The DC is not the final version though as that was also sort of studio impossed and not quite to Ridley's liking. There's more to come.
The DC of Aliens makes it a bit more like the much superior Alien, and T2 DC has more of the fantastic nuclear war stuff and dream sequences, and again nice extended middle bit, a sort of "calm before the storm" which reflects on the end of the first film. Still, can you consider it a DC when Cameron himself says he doesn't like it (on one of the documentaries on the disc he says something about it only being there for completist fans, but he doesn't feel those scenes are part of the film. A shame really as I do think they add so much to the film).
Worst DCs though...
Star Wars, EP IV, V and VI
Though VI is probably the lesser because it's least "messed about with".
Worse is yet to come though. EP I and II (and probably III) have ruined the continuity of the rest so George is going to ruin the rest a bit more.
It's never been a great film by any standards (though I loved it when I was a kid) but John Wayne's original 'long' version of THE ALAMO (1960) is so utterly tedious at times as to be beyond belief !!!
Originally posted by FaustBos
[Aliens] This was the one that first popped to mind for me. Interesting but wholely unnecessary.
The only thing the extra scenes did was perhaps slow the pace slightly, but they were far, far from unnecessary.
Originally posted by DeadKenny
Worst DCs though...
Star Wars, EP IV, V and VI
Though VI is probably the lesser because it's least "messed about with".No way, V is the least "messed about with". How can a few more shots of that snow creature and windows knocked in cloud cities walls possibly compare with the horror of that new music number on Jabbas barge? Especially when all that money could have been much better spend 5 mins previously to cgi replace possibly the worst effect in all 3 originals, the rancor stop motion with mile wide matt lines? I felt so sure that this was a dead cert for cgi replacement that I felt really quite annoyed at it when I saw Jedi SE at the cinema.
Blade Runner is the only VHS I have kept, after buying the DVD, because I prefer the original :eek: . In all other cases, the DVD has 'replaced' the VHS copy.
I know u were all talking about bad DC cuts but i just wanna say that the new cut of Star Trek : The Motion Picture is a hell of an improvement on the original.
but i have to agree that Apocalypse Now: redux was complete pants.
It'll be interesting to see the true Directors Edition of Blade Runer alright, early next year..and of course Fellowship of the Ring in November. Interesting.
The problem with a new "true" edition of Blade runner is that Ridley is editing it from scratch and I bet he is a different man to the one who made it in the first place.
I think its the same with Lucas and Spielberg as well, they lose their "edge" as they get older
:(
Originally posted by JDS
The problem with a new "true" edition of Blade runner is that Ridley is editing it from scratch and I bet he is a different man to the one who made it in the first place.
Yes he might try and push the "Deckard is a replicant" idea too much to the fore. :sad:
Originally posted by Dan Druff
It'll be interesting to see the true Directors Edition of Blade Runer alright, early next year..and of course Fellowship of the Ring in November. Interesting.
By your wording, it sounds like you think November's release of LOTR:FOTR will be a "true director's edition" (or were you just describing Blade Runner as that?).
The extended FOTR is *not* a "director's cut". Peter Jackson made this very clear on one of the documentaries. He said the theatrical release was the "director's cut", because it was exactly the version he wanted shown at the cinema. The extended version is merely an interesting thing for fans.
(This is very similar to James Cameron's beliefs about his extended films -- and look how much you all grumble about how long and unnecessary they are, yet you're all foaming at the mouth for the extended FOTR DVD!)
Originally posted by SqueakyG
By your wording, it sounds like you think November's release of LOTR:FOTR will be a "true director's edition" (or were you just describing Blade Runner as that?).
No just Blade Runner..can't wait for that.
With so many fans wanting to see extra material, how long before a director just puts his "rushes" on dvd and lets you edit whatever version you want
:(
The ET cut was fine by me, i find the whole walkie-talkie thing pretty petty anyway, but then Spielberg has said that he never really wanted that scene there anyway.
Though i do think the terrorist line was just petty.
The new version of Apocalypse Now really draggs....
The director's cut of The Abyss is flaccid, maudlin and everything is painfully spelled out.
The shorter version, while no masterpiece, is far tighter, more exciting and I like the unexplained ending which is far more optimistic and magical than the sledgehammer-blatancy of the film's "message" in the long version.
Originally posted by GrossePointeJack
The ET cut was fine by me, i find the whole walkie-talkie thing pretty petty anyway, but then Spielberg has said that he never really wanted that scene there anyway.
Though i do think the terrorist line was just petty.
The gun bit is such a symbol of the times though. All the kids films used to have these symbols of American authority (government/military) chasing after a kid(s) and/or alien/robot/etc with big guns.
The terrorist thing is just stupid though, but America is so obsessed with the word now that it's probably a hanging offence to even mention it in public (unless it refers to anyone America would like to chuck a misile at :D). In fact, this thread has probably been flagged up on some FBI computer because we've been typing the word :norty:.
:D
I think the French Plantation scene in "AN Redux" is very significant to the film and I am glad to have it back in the film. It was the stuff with the Bunnies that annoyed me.
Originally posted by Goragio
Aliens DC.
Have to agree although I thought the original cut was pretty dire (I know I know. I've been through this b4:D) but the DC was really an ill-informed choice by Cameron....
Other dire DC:
The Abyss - the only helf-decent film produced by Cameron "Aliens-ised":rolleyes:
Any Given Sunday - some added scenes really jar the flow of an already long film
What is worrying me with the current trend towards DC on DVD is that Director's may sometimes be accepting to not release their vision for the cinemas but wait for the DVD release. not really a great prospect:(
That said some director's are terrible judges of what is a good film and the ego flattering/money spinning prospect of a DC may be too much for some...
Originally posted by jonathan.e
I got you all beat: Until the End of the World aka how to extend a 2 hour long boring film into a 5 hour long boring film.
well you'll be happy to know that this is what Wenders shall be releasing on DVD (or maybe the 8 hour version:) )...
I honestly can't wait to see it... no I'm not kidding :)
I don't care if the voiceover in the original version of BLADE RUNNER was imposed by the studio; I still find it vastly preferable to the director's cut and it's obvious many others do as well.
I'm with perfecta on UTEOTW...
"during the meanwhilst":
Betty Blue - the DC ruins the original narrative turning point which was so dramatic
AN Redux - The French Plantation scene is too long and historically redundant and it stops the narrative's symbolic journey. It was completely unnecessary (like the whole reux thing IMHO) and there's some dodgy lip synch issues too from the necessary re-recording - the rest is fine though it would all work just as well as deleted scenes since the original is a masterpiece
Blade Runner DC is not a DC but is far superior to the dumbed down original
The Shining - I much prefer the longer US cut to the later shorter re-edit
Originally posted by kerbcrawler
The Shining - I much prefer the longer US cut to the later shorter re-edit
Same with me, though it's a confusing issue. Supposedly Stan preferred the shorter cut, but then why did he approve the release of the longer cut on video and DVD in the US later well after he'd come to that decision, and yet still the shorter cut in Europe? :confused:
I hate it when studios and/or directors decide a film is preferable in one format for a particular audience and a different format for a different audience (The Big Blue springs to mind there, and Highlander, though we got the good versions thankfully).
Originally posted by Cornelius
George Lucas EP1 and EP2
:zzz:
Seems any opportunity to slag off these films is taken by some people. We know you don't like them, so there's no need to keep telling us.
Originally posted by Goragio
Oh and just to make sure there are absolutely no surprises show you exactly what happend to the coloney.
same with Stargate.
i really hate the boy getting captured scene right at the start.
Apocalypse Now Redux, the mystery is no longer apparent :( The original is stunning, though :clap:
I think a lot depends on how you come to the Director's Cut.
With most of these films we have already seen the original versions, so there is a degree of familiarity. Somethimes a DC can be blamed for things that it is not guilty of.
Also, your attitude to a DC can depend on your knowledge of the history of the film's production. Where a studio imposes cuts and re-edits, you tend to be more favourable to the DC. Examples of this would be US versions of Brazil and Legend. Studio edits to Pat Garratt & Billy the Kind, The Wild Bunch, Blade Runner.
Whereas, when a director was seen to have a lot of freedom a DC can seem over indulgent, examples of this would be, Terminator 2, Dances With Wolves, JFK.
I prefer nearly all of the high profile DC to the originals.
Aliens
Apocolypse Now: Redux
Abyss
Betty Blue
Close Encounters
In my mind these all improve the films. Betty Blue and Apocalypse Now especially. I didn't realise Betty Blue was a comedy until I saw the DC at the Cinema.
With Alien and the Abyss I don't know how anyone can prefer the shorter cuts. The fore knowledge that Ripley's daughter died whilst she was in hypersleep is essential to the theme of the film.
The external narrative added to the Abyss is also essential to the basic sentiment of that film. Read Orson Scott Card's novelisation, he did not have the luxury of knowing the film would be cut, so tackles the full version. The ETI's in the Abyss choose not to destroy mankind on the basis on how the crew of Deepcore respond to their predicament. This makes the ending much more effective and also links the Abyss to the tradition of SciFi movies like the Day the Earth Stood Still, where man's ability for love and forgiveness saves the day. The sacrifice Bud makes saves the crew of Deepcore and mankind, you can't get much more overwhelming than that.
Originally posted by Mr Nice
No way, V is the least "messed about with". How can a few more shots of that snow creature and windows knocked in cloud cities walls possibly compare with the horror of that new music number on Jabbas barge? Especially when all that money could have been much better spend 5 mins previously to cgi replace possibly the worst effect in all 3 originals, the rancor stop motion with mile wide matt lines? I felt so sure that this was a dead cert for cgi replacement that I felt really quite annoyed at it when I saw Jedi SE at the cinema.
V definitely loses points for extreme tackiness though - giving Luke the Emperor's scream, stealing the start of Return of the Jedi for Vader going back to his Star Destroyer. I also preferred Vader saying "Bring my shuttle" to "Alert my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival". Though I agree, up until that point it's fine
Tackiness is also apparent in IV, with the part where Greedo shoots first and Han moves his head. Please! That was so appallingly done, it made me wretch. However, I don't mind most of the things done in IV, it's certainly not as bad as the other two
Finally Return of the Jedi - I agree with you on the changing of the musical number in Jabba's Palace and also with the changing of the end music too. I much preferred the Ewok's little dance as opposed to seeing all around the galaxy
These films should never have been changed. It's such a shame that Lucas sees Star Wars more as his cash cow than some great films :(
Originally posted by EdgeOfVictory
V definitely loses points for extreme tackiness though - giving Luke the Emperor's scream, stealing the start of Return of the Jedi for Vader going back to his Star Destroyer. I also preferred Vader saying "Bring my shuttle" to "Alert my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival". Though I agree, up until that point it's fine
Those are really bad and almost ruin the film (in the same was the greedo shooting ruins IV), especially the sissy scream from Luke. The cloud-city enhancements are terrible. It's so obvious that some ILM guys wanted to be 'in' on it so they got some geeks to walk about for atmosphere. I think my problem with V is that it never needed any changes, it was near perfect.
VI has the bad musical number at the beginning then it's generally not messed about with until the very end. Or at the very least the enhancements are exactly what should have been done for the other films, just clean-ups. Though I take the point about failing to clean up the rancor though.
Anyway, George hasn't finished messing about with them yet so the worst is yet to come.
The only one I can think of is Last of the Mohicans DC
:rolleyes:
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George Lucas EP1 and EP2.
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not a bitter starwars fan then
:)
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Terminator 2.
No need Jim.
It's too long as it is.
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I think Terminator 2 is actually better with the extra scenes
Film is so good don't notice how long it goes on for
:smokin:
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I expect a few people will end up posting about the Lethal Weapons, but I quite like having the extra scenes myself :p
Same with T2. Doesn't destroy the film for me.
Just that films like Almost Famous show how a good directors cut can enhance the film :)
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Lethal Weapon 1 DC is far better than the original
The sniper scene speaks for itself
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Dawn Of The Dead......
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Terminator 2 R1 with the ultimate edtion of the film ROCKS
Tafsir:)
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I got you all beat: Until the End of the World aka how to extend a 2 hour long boring film into a 5 hour long boring film.
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Ya the dir. cut of Dawn Of The Dead. The extra mall scenes in the middle kill the film. Plus the r2 release is cut as well so it shouldnt really be called the directors cut:zzz:
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Blade runner for me, I think the directors cut is absolute shineola
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I thought T2's extra scenes were interesting but slowed the pace too much.
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er jonathan e. i believe that there's an 8 hour cut of Until the End of the World....... ha!
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Close Encounters of the Third Kind
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The director's cut of Dawn of the Dead isn't really his preferred version of the film. It was a pre-release cut shown at Cannes. After that was shown, Romero cut the film down.
I have seen the "Director's Cut" and the European cut (Zombi), but not the theatrical version of the film.
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I prefer the directors cuts of the Lethal Weapon series. OK they are bambustous nonsence but they make me laugh ad really cheer me up when I am feeling a tad down.
However I thought the DC of Bladerunner without the music and voiceover was a bit pants. Watchable yes, but still not as good as the original.
The DC of T2 I like but it does seem a little lengthy. A DC of the original Terminator might be interesting however.
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T2's 'Learning to smile' scene is such a pointless waste of time, it wrecks the killer appeal of the T-101. I know he's meant to be become more human, next he will be Morris Dancing
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Originally posted by Fred2002
However I thought the DC of Bladerunner without the music and voiceover was a bit pants. Watchable yes, but still not as good as the original.
the voiceover was terrible (on purpose i believe), blatantly put there to tell you a story that didn't need explaining. Dumbing down of the worst kind IMO.
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Originally posted by threadkiller
Blade runner for me, I think the directors cut is absolute shineola
I'm trying to work out if that's a joke or not (apologies if it aint!) - the DC of bladerunner is much better to my mind
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whas good about t2 ue is that if you hate the new version, then you can still watch the original version
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T2 Directors Cut is the only example I can think of, where the extra footage has made the film worse, Arnie smiling - do me a favour!
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'Lock Stock...' - the theatrical version is much better
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It's hard to believe that the pile of steaming vomit known as "Plays With Camera", sorry "Dances With Wolves" could be worse, but the 4 hour Director's Cut is so horrible that every copy should be sealed in a hermetic vault for the rest of eternity.
I'd also reluctantly have to say that the DC of "Nixon" - a great film, possibly Stone's finest achievement - is too long. The stuff with Richard Helms is only interesting if you know the history, in which case it isn't really necessary.
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Apocolypse Now Redux. Waste of ******* cash !
I liked the DC Lethal Weapons and T2.
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I like Director's Cuts of all of the movies mentioned here, all that I've seen anyway.
Especialy Blade Runner and Apocalypse Now.
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Paul490: You really should check out the theatrical release of Dawn Of The Dead. It is by far and away the best version.
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Originally posted by jimto
er jonathan e. i believe that there's an 8 hour cut of Until the End of the World....... ha!
God help us all if there is. This is the one I saw:
A five-hour director's cut was shown on 6 December 1996 at the University of Washington, with director Wim Wenders attending, and at the National Film Theatre in London on Saturday 2nd July 1994.
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Aliens DC.
Let's break up the tension by adding some really dull bits.
Oh and just to make sure there are absolutely no surprises show you exactly what happend to the coloney.
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Let's break up the tension by adding some really dull bits.
And by adding extra bad performance by Bill Paxton
"We're a bunch of bad-assess...." :oh-hum:
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director's cuts that have made a film worse
The Blues Brothers.
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I actualy prefered the voiceover version of Bladerunner. I always saw it as a type of remake of the old black and white Sam Spade things where they talked over the film.
Worst fiddling for me was the special editions of the first three star wars.
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It is difficult to tell with some movies because the original is so well known. Superman's extra scenes jarred because I grew up with that film but I can't deny that some of them integrated quite well.
A good additional question would be, "Which version will be remembered? Theatrical or DC?"
Blade Runner, The Abyss and Almost Famous (not seen yet, but would love to) seem destined to be remembered in their DC versions. Films like T2, the Star Wars Trilogy and Close Encounters seem to be mired in controversy, though, splitting fans and being famous because there is no definitive version.
Should we leave our movies alone??
Chorlton
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Star Wars IV-VI
E.T.
Terminator 2
The Abyss
But I actually do think that all of the above was called "special editions" rather that DC's, whatever the difference might be...
I'm very happy for the DVDs of the last 2 movies mentioned, because I can choose between theatrical and DC. But I'm very concerned about Star Wars...!!! Also I don't like the idea of giving so much money for E.T. just to have the original cut.
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The so called DC of Blade Runner killed the film for me.
Can't get the original on DVD!
As far as I know.:sad:
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Originally posted by SpaceCoyote
The so called DC of Blade Runner killed the film for me.
Can't get the original on DVD!
As far as I know.:sad:
Apparently the original cut is on the upcoming Sp Ed. Once confirmed my Criterion CAV LD is hitting Ebay at the speed of light!
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Originally posted by Paul490
The director's cut of Dawn of the Dead isn't really his preferred version of the film. It was a pre-release cut shown at Cannes. After that was shown, Romero cut the film down.
Rightly, because the long version <U>really</U> drags in the middle to no effect whatsoever.
I have seen the "Director's Cut" and the European cut (Zombi), but not the theatrical version of the film.
Which, ironically enough, is the closest to Romero's ideal! I actually quite like the Argento cut - it's faster-paced and more straightforwardly entertaining even if it junks a lot of the acerbic consumerist satire - but if I had to choose one version it would be the theatrical cut.
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The new scenes in Aliens were interesting, but I wished they'd included the theatrical cut on the DVD, because it is much better paced.
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Originally posted by Reno
The new scenes in Aliens were interesting, but I wished they'd included the theatrical cut on the DVD, because it is much better paced.
This was the one that first popped to mind for me. Interesting but wholely unnecessary. It would be nice if DCs had a branching option if possible.
On the whole, I tend to enjoy directors cuts but also on the whole, DCs have given me an appreciation setting limits and what goes on in the editing room.
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Another vote for the DC of Bladerunner. Ruined the film for me.
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I like the DCs of Bladerunner, Aliens and T2, all much better.
In the case of Bladerunner Original, don't forget the voice over was studio impossed and both Ridley and Ford hated it. Worse still is the tacked on outtake from The Shining at the end! :eek:.
The DC is not the final version though as that was also sort of studio impossed and not quite to Ridley's liking. There's more to come.
The DC of Aliens makes it a bit more like the much superior Alien, and T2 DC has more of the fantastic nuclear war stuff and dream sequences, and again nice extended middle bit, a sort of "calm before the storm" which reflects on the end of the first film. Still, can you consider it a DC when Cameron himself says he doesn't like it (on one of the documentaries on the disc he says something about it only being there for completist fans, but he doesn't feel those scenes are part of the film. A shame really as I do think they add so much to the film).
Worst DCs though...
Star Wars, EP IV, V and VI
Though VI is probably the lesser because it's least "messed about with".
Worse is yet to come though. EP I and II (and probably III) have ruined the continuity of the rest so George is going to ruin the rest a bit more.
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It's never been a great film by any standards (though I loved it when I was a kid) but John Wayne's original 'long' version of THE ALAMO (1960) is so utterly tedious at times as to be beyond belief !!!
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Originally posted by FaustBos
[Aliens] This was the one that first popped to mind for me. Interesting but wholely unnecessary.
The only thing the extra scenes did was perhaps slow the pace slightly, but they were far, far from unnecessary.
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Originally posted by DeadKenny
Worst DCs though...
Star Wars, EP IV, V and VI
Though VI is probably the lesser because it's least "messed about with".No way, V is the least "messed about with". How can a few more shots of that snow creature and windows knocked in cloud cities walls possibly compare with the horror of that new music number on Jabbas barge? Especially when all that money could have been much better spend 5 mins previously to cgi replace possibly the worst effect in all 3 originals, the rancor stop motion with mile wide matt lines? I felt so sure that this was a dead cert for cgi replacement that I felt really quite annoyed at it when I saw Jedi SE at the cinema.
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Blade Runner is the only VHS I have kept, after buying the DVD, because I prefer the original :eek: . In all other cases, the DVD has 'replaced' the VHS copy.
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I know u were all talking about bad DC cuts but i just wanna say that the new cut of Star Trek : The Motion Picture is a hell of an improvement on the original.
but i have to agree that Apocalypse Now: redux was complete pants.
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It'll be interesting to see the true Directors Edition of Blade Runer alright, early next year..and of course Fellowship of the Ring in November. Interesting.
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The problem with a new "true" edition of Blade runner is that Ridley is editing it from scratch and I bet he is a different man to the one who made it in the first place.
I think its the same with Lucas and Spielberg as well, they lose their "edge" as they get older
:(
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Originally posted by JDS
The problem with a new "true" edition of Blade runner is that Ridley is editing it from scratch and I bet he is a different man to the one who made it in the first place.
Yes he might try and push the "Deckard is a replicant" idea too much to the fore. :sad:
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Originally posted by Dan Druff
It'll be interesting to see the true Directors Edition of Blade Runer alright, early next year..and of course Fellowship of the Ring in November. Interesting.
By your wording, it sounds like you think November's release of LOTR:FOTR will be a "true director's edition" (or were you just describing Blade Runner as that?).
The extended FOTR is *not* a "director's cut". Peter Jackson made this very clear on one of the documentaries. He said the theatrical release was the "director's cut", because it was exactly the version he wanted shown at the cinema. The extended version is merely an interesting thing for fans.
(This is very similar to James Cameron's beliefs about his extended films -- and look how much you all grumble about how long and unnecessary they are, yet you're all foaming at the mouth for the extended FOTR DVD!)
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Originally posted by SqueakyG
By your wording, it sounds like you think November's release of LOTR:FOTR will be a "true director's edition" (or were you just describing Blade Runner as that?).
No just Blade Runner..can't wait for that.
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With so many fans wanting to see extra material, how long before a director just puts his "rushes" on dvd and lets you edit whatever version you want
:(
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The ET cut was fine by me, i find the whole walkie-talkie thing pretty petty anyway, but then Spielberg has said that he never really wanted that scene there anyway.
Though i do think the terrorist line was just petty.
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The new version of Apocalypse Now really draggs....
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The director's cut of The Abyss is flaccid, maudlin and everything is painfully spelled out.
The shorter version, while no masterpiece, is far tighter, more exciting and I like the unexplained ending which is far more optimistic and magical than the sledgehammer-blatancy of the film's "message" in the long version.
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Originally posted by GrossePointeJack
The ET cut was fine by me, i find the whole walkie-talkie thing pretty petty anyway, but then Spielberg has said that he never really wanted that scene there anyway.
Though i do think the terrorist line was just petty.
The gun bit is such a symbol of the times though. All the kids films used to have these symbols of American authority (government/military) chasing after a kid(s) and/or alien/robot/etc with big guns.
The terrorist thing is just stupid though, but America is so obsessed with the word now that it's probably a hanging offence to even mention it in public (unless it refers to anyone America would like to chuck a misile at :D). In fact, this thread has probably been flagged up on some FBI computer because we've been typing the word :norty:.
:D
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I think the French Plantation scene in "AN Redux" is very significant to the film and I am glad to have it back in the film. It was the stuff with the Bunnies that annoyed me.
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Originally posted by Goragio
Aliens DC.
Have to agree although I thought the original cut was pretty dire (I know I know. I've been through this b4:D) but the DC was really an ill-informed choice by Cameron....
Other dire DC:
The Abyss - the only helf-decent film produced by Cameron "Aliens-ised":rolleyes:
Any Given Sunday - some added scenes really jar the flow of an already long film
What is worrying me with the current trend towards DC on DVD is that Director's may sometimes be accepting to not release their vision for the cinemas but wait for the DVD release. not really a great prospect:(
That said some director's are terrible judges of what is a good film and the ego flattering/money spinning prospect of a DC may be too much for some...
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Originally posted by jonathan.e
I got you all beat: Until the End of the World aka how to extend a 2 hour long boring film into a 5 hour long boring film.
well you'll be happy to know that this is what Wenders shall be releasing on DVD (or maybe the 8 hour version:) )...
I honestly can't wait to see it... no I'm not kidding :)
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I don't care if the voiceover in the original version of BLADE RUNNER was imposed by the studio; I still find it vastly preferable to the director's cut and it's obvious many others do as well.
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I'm with perfecta on UTEOTW...
"during the meanwhilst":
Betty Blue - the DC ruins the original narrative turning point which was so dramatic
AN Redux - The French Plantation scene is too long and historically redundant and it stops the narrative's symbolic journey. It was completely unnecessary (like the whole reux thing IMHO) and there's some dodgy lip synch issues too from the necessary re-recording - the rest is fine though it would all work just as well as deleted scenes since the original is a masterpiece
Blade Runner DC is not a DC but is far superior to the dumbed down original
The Shining - I much prefer the longer US cut to the later shorter re-edit
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Originally posted by kerbcrawler
The Shining - I much prefer the longer US cut to the later shorter re-edit
Same with me, though it's a confusing issue. Supposedly Stan preferred the shorter cut, but then why did he approve the release of the longer cut on video and DVD in the US later well after he'd come to that decision, and yet still the shorter cut in Europe? :confused:
I hate it when studios and/or directors decide a film is preferable in one format for a particular audience and a different format for a different audience (The Big Blue springs to mind there, and Highlander, though we got the good versions thankfully).
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Originally posted by Cornelius
George Lucas EP1 and EP2
:zzz:
Seems any opportunity to slag off these films is taken by some people. We know you don't like them, so there's no need to keep telling us.
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Originally posted by Goragio
Oh and just to make sure there are absolutely no surprises show you exactly what happend to the coloney.
same with Stargate.
i really hate the boy getting captured scene right at the start.
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Apocalypse Now Redux, the mystery is no longer apparent :( The original is stunning, though :clap:
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I think a lot depends on how you come to the Director's Cut.
With most of these films we have already seen the original versions, so there is a degree of familiarity. Somethimes a DC can be blamed for things that it is not guilty of.
Also, your attitude to a DC can depend on your knowledge of the history of the film's production. Where a studio imposes cuts and re-edits, you tend to be more favourable to the DC. Examples of this would be US versions of Brazil and Legend. Studio edits to Pat Garratt & Billy the Kind, The Wild Bunch, Blade Runner.
Whereas, when a director was seen to have a lot of freedom a DC can seem over indulgent, examples of this would be, Terminator 2, Dances With Wolves, JFK.
I prefer nearly all of the high profile DC to the originals.
Aliens
Apocolypse Now: Redux
Abyss
Betty Blue
Close Encounters
In my mind these all improve the films. Betty Blue and Apocalypse Now especially. I didn't realise Betty Blue was a comedy until I saw the DC at the Cinema.
With Alien and the Abyss I don't know how anyone can prefer the shorter cuts. The fore knowledge that Ripley's daughter died whilst she was in hypersleep is essential to the theme of the film.
The external narrative added to the Abyss is also essential to the basic sentiment of that film. Read Orson Scott Card's novelisation, he did not have the luxury of knowing the film would be cut, so tackles the full version. The ETI's in the Abyss choose not to destroy mankind on the basis on how the crew of Deepcore respond to their predicament. This makes the ending much more effective and also links the Abyss to the tradition of SciFi movies like the Day the Earth Stood Still, where man's ability for love and forgiveness saves the day. The sacrifice Bud makes saves the crew of Deepcore and mankind, you can't get much more overwhelming than that.
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Originally posted by Mr Nice
No way, V is the least "messed about with". How can a few more shots of that snow creature and windows knocked in cloud cities walls possibly compare with the horror of that new music number on Jabbas barge? Especially when all that money could have been much better spend 5 mins previously to cgi replace possibly the worst effect in all 3 originals, the rancor stop motion with mile wide matt lines? I felt so sure that this was a dead cert for cgi replacement that I felt really quite annoyed at it when I saw Jedi SE at the cinema.
V definitely loses points for extreme tackiness though - giving Luke the Emperor's scream, stealing the start of Return of the Jedi for Vader going back to his Star Destroyer. I also preferred Vader saying "Bring my shuttle" to "Alert my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival". Though I agree, up until that point it's fine
Tackiness is also apparent in IV, with the part where Greedo shoots first and Han moves his head. Please! That was so appallingly done, it made me wretch. However, I don't mind most of the things done in IV, it's certainly not as bad as the other two
Finally Return of the Jedi - I agree with you on the changing of the musical number in Jabba's Palace and also with the changing of the end music too. I much preferred the Ewok's little dance as opposed to seeing all around the galaxy
These films should never have been changed. It's such a shame that Lucas sees Star Wars more as his cash cow than some great films :(
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Originally posted by EdgeOfVictory
V definitely loses points for extreme tackiness though - giving Luke the Emperor's scream, stealing the start of Return of the Jedi for Vader going back to his Star Destroyer. I also preferred Vader saying "Bring my shuttle" to "Alert my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival". Though I agree, up until that point it's fine
Those are really bad and almost ruin the film (in the same was the greedo shooting ruins IV), especially the sissy scream from Luke. The cloud-city enhancements are terrible. It's so obvious that some ILM guys wanted to be 'in' on it so they got some geeks to walk about for atmosphere. I think my problem with V is that it never needed any changes, it was near perfect.
VI has the bad musical number at the beginning then it's generally not messed about with until the very end. Or at the very least the enhancements are exactly what should have been done for the other films, just clean-ups. Though I take the point about failing to clean up the rancor though.
Anyway, George hasn't finished messing about with them yet so the worst is yet to come.
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