Question:
I think it must be me but DVD isn't as good as it used to be. I think the step-up from normal video and TV made dvd look prefect at first. Now don't get me wrong the playback on my DVD players is amazing but I am not starting to notice the grain ect, lthougth i'm always picky and notice most things.
I was watching Eight Legged Freaks yesterday and I noticed a lot of 'grain' Don't know if grain is the proper word for it but it's the only word I can think of. Even on excellent transfers I notice a certain amount of 'grain'.
Is this to do with the original film master, the encoding or the DVD player itself? It might be because I have a 24" widescreen TV in my room and only sit anywhere from 1.5 to a max of 3 meter's away so being quite close I notice it more. The funny thing is I was watching a Cowboy Bebop DVD (it's a region 1 anime, great art and a great transfer, fullscreen) yet when watching this I didn't notice any grain as such? I don't know if this is to do with the nature of animation and the vibrant colours?
Anyway can anyone explain this? Is this just to do with the nature of the MPEG 2 technology, the original film transfer, the encoding or the DVD player itself? Do the more expensive models get rid of this?
What DVD player do you have, and what cables do you use?
Well for most of the time I ahd a budget Proline player I got back in 2000! Got great reviews at the time and IMO is stll better than some of the newer bedget players up till recently.
Anyway got a new Pioneer dV-360 player from amazon, althogth it is entry level still got great reviews and the picture is great.
As for cables just using a cheap scart lead with gold plates.
Hi,
Just tested Eight Legged Freaks on two other DVD players. One was about a £100 quird player on a sony flatscreen widescreen TV and the other was on a Playstation 2 conected to an old 21" inch TV. The grain was very obvious here especially on the large sony TV. Now I admit a playstation 2 on an old TV isn't the best set up but it was still there.
I had a look at the latest bond dvd (whatever the new one is called) on my DVD player (new Pioneer DV-360) and althogth no where near as bad as Eight Legged freaks, if you look for it it's there, although if you were sitting a distance away like most people do in thier front room you would be hard pushed to notice it.
I've also read some other threads about it and some people call it 'snow'. It just seems strange that this is not mentioned much, I know the Matrix is know to be a grainy transfer and has been mentioned before tho.
Aslo It doesn't appear to effect any of the menu's on the DVD's?
Maybe i'm just being to picky and notice hings to much that other people are not bothered about but I was just interested to see if this was the DVD's themsleves which seems likely. I just wanted to see what people know about this, as it is never mentioned in reviews. I suppose if you were using a projectore or rear projection TV you might not notice this because the picture is not as sharp.
Film is grainy. Go to the cinema and watch a 35mil film, you'll spot grain.
Try watch a film which is 100% computer generated like shrek or a bugs life or something (not sure which).
Sounds to me as though you have got your TV set up wrong mate...try using the THX optimode on discs such as any of the Star Wars films or Monsters Inc. Turning down the brightness to a more acceptable level should reduce the grain and at the same time improve clarity. I use an LCD projector on a 6 ft screen and don't notice grain...now screen door is an entirely different matter generated by the PJ and not the disc...but I definanitly do not notice grain. What you may also be seeing is edge enhancement. This will give a ring effect around objects and people, like ghosting. The latest Bond film (Die Another Day) is one of the worst offenders of edge enhancement ever, particularly the R1 version...
Watch Witness if you want to see a hell of a lot of grain (and not just the grain in the barn near the end!).
I noticed and queried grain on some films when I went from analogue VGA to DVI on my pc monitor. As stated above, grain is a natural by product of the filming process. Film will have more grain if filmed with a faster(?) film in low light conditions. When you move to a very high quality display this then becomes considerably more obvious. This will be exagerated by viewing closer to the TV than 'normally recommended'.
The bottom line is DVD was a quantum leap in quality. Playback and display devices have now caught up with budget equipment offering the quality much more expensive gear. We are now ready for the next stage, be it high def, or better/alternative means of filming and mastering etc etc.
Do note though that if your brightness or contrast are set too high, then grain(along with other artifacts) will be more visible then it should be. So, setting contrast/brightness correctly via THX optimode or similar is always a good idea.
Specifically about CowboyBebop not displaying grain: Modern tv animation don't pass through a film stage anymore(pre mid 90's-ish will have grain though if you look hard enough), hence no grain.
I'm pretty sure my TV is set up right and as people have said now and confirmed for me it just the film itslef. I think it was watching Eight Legged Freaks that really made me question it, trust me it is a really grainy film. I think my contrast and brightness levels are fine but I might have a bit of a tinker with them. Thanks for the feedback everyone!.
I was watching Eight Legged Freaks yesterday and I noticed a lot of 'grain' Don't know if grain is the proper word for it but it's the only word I can think of. Even on excellent transfers I notice a certain amount of 'grain'.
Is this to do with the original film master, the encoding or the DVD player itself? It might be because I have a 24" widescreen TV in my room and only sit anywhere from 1.5 to a max of 3 meter's away so being quite close I notice it more. The funny thing is I was watching a Cowboy Bebop DVD (it's a region 1 anime, great art and a great transfer, fullscreen) yet when watching this I didn't notice any grain as such? I don't know if this is to do with the nature of animation and the vibrant colours?
Anyway can anyone explain this? Is this just to do with the nature of the MPEG 2 technology, the original film transfer, the encoding or the DVD player itself? Do the more expensive models get rid of this?
Answers:
What DVD player do you have, and what cables do you use?
Answers:
Well for most of the time I ahd a budget Proline player I got back in 2000! Got great reviews at the time and IMO is stll better than some of the newer bedget players up till recently.
Anyway got a new Pioneer dV-360 player from amazon, althogth it is entry level still got great reviews and the picture is great.
As for cables just using a cheap scart lead with gold plates.
Answers:
Hi,
Just tested Eight Legged Freaks on two other DVD players. One was about a £100 quird player on a sony flatscreen widescreen TV and the other was on a Playstation 2 conected to an old 21" inch TV. The grain was very obvious here especially on the large sony TV. Now I admit a playstation 2 on an old TV isn't the best set up but it was still there.
I had a look at the latest bond dvd (whatever the new one is called) on my DVD player (new Pioneer DV-360) and althogth no where near as bad as Eight Legged freaks, if you look for it it's there, although if you were sitting a distance away like most people do in thier front room you would be hard pushed to notice it.
I've also read some other threads about it and some people call it 'snow'. It just seems strange that this is not mentioned much, I know the Matrix is know to be a grainy transfer and has been mentioned before tho.
Aslo It doesn't appear to effect any of the menu's on the DVD's?
Maybe i'm just being to picky and notice hings to much that other people are not bothered about but I was just interested to see if this was the DVD's themsleves which seems likely. I just wanted to see what people know about this, as it is never mentioned in reviews. I suppose if you were using a projectore or rear projection TV you might not notice this because the picture is not as sharp.
Answers:
Film is grainy. Go to the cinema and watch a 35mil film, you'll spot grain.
Try watch a film which is 100% computer generated like shrek or a bugs life or something (not sure which).
Answers:
Sounds to me as though you have got your TV set up wrong mate...try using the THX optimode on discs such as any of the Star Wars films or Monsters Inc. Turning down the brightness to a more acceptable level should reduce the grain and at the same time improve clarity. I use an LCD projector on a 6 ft screen and don't notice grain...now screen door is an entirely different matter generated by the PJ and not the disc...but I definanitly do not notice grain. What you may also be seeing is edge enhancement. This will give a ring effect around objects and people, like ghosting. The latest Bond film (Die Another Day) is one of the worst offenders of edge enhancement ever, particularly the R1 version...
Answers:
Watch Witness if you want to see a hell of a lot of grain (and not just the grain in the barn near the end!).
Answers:
I noticed and queried grain on some films when I went from analogue VGA to DVI on my pc monitor. As stated above, grain is a natural by product of the filming process. Film will have more grain if filmed with a faster(?) film in low light conditions. When you move to a very high quality display this then becomes considerably more obvious. This will be exagerated by viewing closer to the TV than 'normally recommended'.
The bottom line is DVD was a quantum leap in quality. Playback and display devices have now caught up with budget equipment offering the quality much more expensive gear. We are now ready for the next stage, be it high def, or better/alternative means of filming and mastering etc etc.
Answers:
Do note though that if your brightness or contrast are set too high, then grain(along with other artifacts) will be more visible then it should be. So, setting contrast/brightness correctly via THX optimode or similar is always a good idea.
Specifically about CowboyBebop not displaying grain: Modern tv animation don't pass through a film stage anymore(pre mid 90's-ish will have grain though if you look hard enough), hence no grain.
Answers:
I'm pretty sure my TV is set up right and as people have said now and confirmed for me it just the film itslef. I think it was watching Eight Legged Freaks that really made me question it, trust me it is a really grainy film. I think my contrast and brightness levels are fine but I might have a bit of a tinker with them. Thanks for the feedback everyone!.
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