Question:
can anyone pls explain the difference between a dvd player with/without inbuilt decoder. i have one player with and one without decoder and am now about to buy an amp and speakers. should i look for an amp with 6 inputs/2 inputs. should this amp be digital.analogue? what effect would i gain/loss by using 1 or other of my players. hope u will understand the point i am trying to make . i just don't understand why 1 machine has a decoder and 1 does not especially as there is insufficient output to drive speakers. would i have to buy a different amp for both??
to save anyone time i would be happy with a link which may explain.
thanks for tolerating!!!!
Don;t bother with a built in decoder. Get an amp to do the job for you. Otherwise you will have to run a whole lot of cables from the dvd player into a pro logic amp. Instead just use one optical cable into a DD/DTS amp.
I'm sure someone will come along with a more scentific explanation..
The only part of that I'd argue with if I wanted to get really silly :lol: would be to use a coaxial cable if possible as in theory atleast, they offer a purer signal (since theres no optical conversion)
I agree with marcus though, using a player decoder would mean running 6 phono cables into your amp, and to be honest, most good amps should have higher quality decoders than those found in mid-price players anyway :thumbs:
Originally posted by Roy Munson
The only part of that I'd argue with if I wanted to get really silly :lol: would be to use a coaxial cable if possible as in theory atleast, they offer a purer signal (since theres no optical conversion)
I agree with marcus though, using a player decoder would mean running 6 phono cables into your amp, and to be honest, most good amps should have higher quality decoders than those found in mid-price players anyway :thumbs:
I have a Sony 930 amp and Sony 700 DVD player. Both have DTS/DD decoders. To get SACD in multichannel, I need to connect the 5.1 inputs as well as the electrical digital interconnect (coaxial).
The result is that the decoder in the 930 amp is MUCH better than that in the DVD player.
At the end of the day, it all depends on whether you think that the decoder on your dvd player or the decoder on your amp will do a better job. In most cases, it will be the amp since that's what the main purpose of the amp. The dvd player should have be concentrating more on getting a good picture quality then outputting the DD/DTS in raw unprocessed form for the amp to deal with.
Bizarre,
I always thought the main purpose of an amp was to 'amplify' ;)
There's plenty of ways of doing this. If you use the amp for stereo music too, there's certainly an argument for using:
DVD Player --> DD/DTS/whatever Decoder (via single cable or in one box)
Decoder via 6 phonos, 3 (rears + centre) to an AV amp (pro logic or whatever)
1 to the sub (powered)
remaining 2 (front L+R) to your normal stereo amp + speakers.
Damn, I did it again:dork:
Yeah that is a common way to add muti-channel to an existing HiFi and is often the choice for stereo purists as they can switch the AV 'amp' out of circuit for listening to stereo music. Not really relevent in this scenario though surely?
Possibly not,
Its just a very good low cost entry to home cinema, particularly if you've got a stereo amp lying around already.
In my experience (which may well be entirely subjective) you can find plenty of low cost AV amps (with digital and/or 6 channel inputs) that sound great for movies, and plenty of high cost AV amps that sound great for movies and music.
The additional cost is often waaaay more than just buying an equivalent sounding separate audio amp.
Anyway, you're right. I'm off topic. Apologies
The answers to the original questions are along the lines of:
To get the sound off a DVD, you need to decode the signal into its composite parts (left right front rears etc) and amplify each signal to drive the speaker.
DVD players with decoders in split the sound into 6 channels in the box, and so require only amplification. Whether you use a totem of stereo amps, 6 powered PC speakers, an AV amp with or without a decoder it doesn't matter. You just need to find a way of amplifying each signal. You connect a decoder to the amp using 6 phono leads.
DVD players without decoders need an AV amp or external decoder to split the signal into the relevant channels, and will provide a digital out port for the non decoded sound. Often the external decoder will be part of an AV amp, so the resulting signal can be amplified in the same box. You connect the source to the decoder using a single lead.
An amp with a six channel input should be capable of amping all 6 simulatenously. This is not the same as a pair of inputs for CD, MD, Tuner, etc... Many AV amps will have both a 6 channel analogue input (via phonos) and one or more digital inputs (via optical/coax/etc).
I think pretty much all players have a digital out (even those with an additional analogue 6 channel out), so if the amp you choose has multiple digital inputs, you could connect both players to it, one to each digital in.
If the amp has only one digital input and a 6 channel analogue in, you could connect the player without the decoder to the digital port, and the other via 6 phonos to the 6 channel input.
Most DSP effects that can be added (stadium/hall/action film, etc) are implemented by the decoder, so you'll lose that functionality if you go via the player's decoder. You also can have some limitations on bass management and speaker delays if you go this route.
Its down to cost really. Richers are pushing the RXV430RDS/HTR5540RDS for around £179 now, and thats got everything you need on board.
(Ps. I'm not really stalking you Roy...)
I'm about to pick up my 2nd DVD player with an onboard decoder.
Mainly because I have a 2 amp setup ( 1 stereo and 1 pro-logic with 2 full sets of 6channel inputs).
I'd have to spend a decent amount to get an AV amp with comperable music performance to my stereo amp (and I will one day - almost got a rotel rsx-972 but pondered to long).
My (soon to be) new player does dvd-a and sacd (heh guess the player...) so will need to be connected via 6ch analog anyhow, as the 'new' audio formats arnt fed via digital yet (often, I think theres some sacd that are?).
Every dvd player Ive seen has at least 1 digital output, lots have 2 (1 of each type).
Inbuild decoders are aparently not up to AV amp decoders but I cant say I've noticed the dif between my old panny A350 and my friends sony 930 amp.
Echo that Rob :)
I'd add that (IMHExperience) player decoders tend to offer less tweaks than amp ones though.
For example, my pioneer636 lets me manage bass by setting the front pair as 'large' or 'small', but always assumes the backs and centres to be small (I think).
The cut-off level is (arbitrarily?) preset inside the player somewhere, but can't be changed by the user. There's also no timing delays availalable, although I have seen other players that will allow a delay for the centre channel and rears (as a pair) only.
In contrast, the last amp based decoder I used allowed specific cut off frequencies and delays for each channel (including split rears!!!)
Although its pretty much accepted that both L + R speaker of any pair would have the same kinda frequency response (room dynamics permitting) its not uncommon that one speaker would be closer than the other, or that the rears would be closer to me than the fronts.
Moving the decoder to the amp also usually allows lots more (often naff sounding) DSP modes to be employed.
Don't talk me out of it btw, I'm trying to convince myself to buy a new AV amp (see other thread...) ;)
to save anyone time i would be happy with a link which may explain.
thanks for tolerating!!!!
Answers:
Don;t bother with a built in decoder. Get an amp to do the job for you. Otherwise you will have to run a whole lot of cables from the dvd player into a pro logic amp. Instead just use one optical cable into a DD/DTS amp.
I'm sure someone will come along with a more scentific explanation..
Answers:
The only part of that I'd argue with if I wanted to get really silly :lol: would be to use a coaxial cable if possible as in theory atleast, they offer a purer signal (since theres no optical conversion)
I agree with marcus though, using a player decoder would mean running 6 phono cables into your amp, and to be honest, most good amps should have higher quality decoders than those found in mid-price players anyway :thumbs:
Answers:
Originally posted by Roy Munson
The only part of that I'd argue with if I wanted to get really silly :lol: would be to use a coaxial cable if possible as in theory atleast, they offer a purer signal (since theres no optical conversion)
I agree with marcus though, using a player decoder would mean running 6 phono cables into your amp, and to be honest, most good amps should have higher quality decoders than those found in mid-price players anyway :thumbs:
I have a Sony 930 amp and Sony 700 DVD player. Both have DTS/DD decoders. To get SACD in multichannel, I need to connect the 5.1 inputs as well as the electrical digital interconnect (coaxial).
The result is that the decoder in the 930 amp is MUCH better than that in the DVD player.
Answers:
At the end of the day, it all depends on whether you think that the decoder on your dvd player or the decoder on your amp will do a better job. In most cases, it will be the amp since that's what the main purpose of the amp. The dvd player should have be concentrating more on getting a good picture quality then outputting the DD/DTS in raw unprocessed form for the amp to deal with.
Answers:
Bizarre,
I always thought the main purpose of an amp was to 'amplify' ;)
There's plenty of ways of doing this. If you use the amp for stereo music too, there's certainly an argument for using:
DVD Player --> DD/DTS/whatever Decoder (via single cable or in one box)
Decoder via 6 phonos, 3 (rears + centre) to an AV amp (pro logic or whatever)
1 to the sub (powered)
remaining 2 (front L+R) to your normal stereo amp + speakers.
Damn, I did it again:dork:
Answers:
Yeah that is a common way to add muti-channel to an existing HiFi and is often the choice for stereo purists as they can switch the AV 'amp' out of circuit for listening to stereo music. Not really relevent in this scenario though surely?
Answers:
Possibly not,
Its just a very good low cost entry to home cinema, particularly if you've got a stereo amp lying around already.
In my experience (which may well be entirely subjective) you can find plenty of low cost AV amps (with digital and/or 6 channel inputs) that sound great for movies, and plenty of high cost AV amps that sound great for movies and music.
The additional cost is often waaaay more than just buying an equivalent sounding separate audio amp.
Anyway, you're right. I'm off topic. Apologies
The answers to the original questions are along the lines of:
To get the sound off a DVD, you need to decode the signal into its composite parts (left right front rears etc) and amplify each signal to drive the speaker.
DVD players with decoders in split the sound into 6 channels in the box, and so require only amplification. Whether you use a totem of stereo amps, 6 powered PC speakers, an AV amp with or without a decoder it doesn't matter. You just need to find a way of amplifying each signal. You connect a decoder to the amp using 6 phono leads.
DVD players without decoders need an AV amp or external decoder to split the signal into the relevant channels, and will provide a digital out port for the non decoded sound. Often the external decoder will be part of an AV amp, so the resulting signal can be amplified in the same box. You connect the source to the decoder using a single lead.
An amp with a six channel input should be capable of amping all 6 simulatenously. This is not the same as a pair of inputs for CD, MD, Tuner, etc... Many AV amps will have both a 6 channel analogue input (via phonos) and one or more digital inputs (via optical/coax/etc).
I think pretty much all players have a digital out (even those with an additional analogue 6 channel out), so if the amp you choose has multiple digital inputs, you could connect both players to it, one to each digital in.
If the amp has only one digital input and a 6 channel analogue in, you could connect the player without the decoder to the digital port, and the other via 6 phonos to the 6 channel input.
Most DSP effects that can be added (stadium/hall/action film, etc) are implemented by the decoder, so you'll lose that functionality if you go via the player's decoder. You also can have some limitations on bass management and speaker delays if you go this route.
Its down to cost really. Richers are pushing the RXV430RDS/HTR5540RDS for around £179 now, and thats got everything you need on board.
(Ps. I'm not really stalking you Roy...)
Answers:
I'm about to pick up my 2nd DVD player with an onboard decoder.
Mainly because I have a 2 amp setup ( 1 stereo and 1 pro-logic with 2 full sets of 6channel inputs).
I'd have to spend a decent amount to get an AV amp with comperable music performance to my stereo amp (and I will one day - almost got a rotel rsx-972 but pondered to long).
My (soon to be) new player does dvd-a and sacd (heh guess the player...) so will need to be connected via 6ch analog anyhow, as the 'new' audio formats arnt fed via digital yet (often, I think theres some sacd that are?).
Every dvd player Ive seen has at least 1 digital output, lots have 2 (1 of each type).
Inbuild decoders are aparently not up to AV amp decoders but I cant say I've noticed the dif between my old panny A350 and my friends sony 930 amp.
Answers:
Echo that Rob :)
I'd add that (IMHExperience) player decoders tend to offer less tweaks than amp ones though.
For example, my pioneer636 lets me manage bass by setting the front pair as 'large' or 'small', but always assumes the backs and centres to be small (I think).
The cut-off level is (arbitrarily?) preset inside the player somewhere, but can't be changed by the user. There's also no timing delays availalable, although I have seen other players that will allow a delay for the centre channel and rears (as a pair) only.
In contrast, the last amp based decoder I used allowed specific cut off frequencies and delays for each channel (including split rears!!!)
Although its pretty much accepted that both L + R speaker of any pair would have the same kinda frequency response (room dynamics permitting) its not uncommon that one speaker would be closer than the other, or that the rears would be closer to me than the fronts.
Moving the decoder to the amp also usually allows lots more (often naff sounding) DSP modes to be employed.
Don't talk me out of it btw, I'm trying to convince myself to buy a new AV amp (see other thread...) ;)
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