Question:
Hi folks,
Been looking into SACD/DVD-A players & discs for a couple of days now, fuelled by the imminent release of Dark Side of Moon 30th Anniv SACD.
Now, it appears to me that there is a limited choice of DVD-A discs available, and no big-seller releases scheduled in the forthcoming months.
With SACD, i can see some excellent titles available, and more to select from.
Is it true to say that SACD has won the format war, and therefore the only format to consider? I would like to buy a new DVD player with at least SACD playback. I Don't like Sony due to reliabilty issues with the last 2 players I've owned, so looking at Philips DVD763A £140, or Pioneer 656a £300 (SACD/DVD-A). Panasonic RA 82 looks nice but only DVD-A...
To buy a player supporting both formats seems to be an option, but is it really necessary?
SACDs i'm looking at:
Bowie - Heathen
Floyd - DSoM
FGTH - Rage Hard
Simple Minds - Best Of / Cry
DVD-A:
??
Metallica - Black Album
The war has not been won by any means. DSOTM is going to be huge for SACD but it's way too early to say which way it will go.
As a happy Pioneer 656 owner, I heartily recommend it. It's not just a universal player, it's a great dvd player
gotta agree its no over by a long shot...
dvd audio seems to have a slight edge:
a) its got the word DVD in it:) and apparently us public like that word for some reason and so marketting people do too:p
b) it can have video/images on it, marketting again like anything they can missell as an extra super exclusive only found on every third planet:lol:
also the SACD i've got (meat loaf bat out of hell) was no where near as impressive as the DVD-Audio I've got (Corrs In Blue)...and neither were as good (overall) as the various music normal dvd's.
also is there two versions of DSoM? amazon uk have the 30th aniv cd but don't mention SACD at all.
DSOTM is a dual layer disk so can be read by both CD & SACD players (of course CD is only 2 channel). Play is the cheapest I've seen it - £9
Both formats have awareness problems: -
SACD was launched years ago (before DVDs came out IIRC), and has been a slow burner (much like the minidisc was). The fact that it's a dony proprietry thing may hamper it's long term life.
DVD-A will inevitably just confuse the vast majority of the public -especially those who bought hifi systems with a DVD deck and can't understand why it won't play DVD-A.
In the long term, I can see DVD-A winning and single machine being both a DVD-V, DVD-A and recorder.
In the short term, both formats are decent due to the hybrid, nature of them (ie most SACDs, will play at CD quality in regular CDs, and most DVD-A have dolby digital/dts tracks)
Originally posted by kiran_mk2
SACD was launched years ago (before DVDs came out IIRC)
You do not remember correctly. SACD launched about 3 years ago in the UK with the Sony SCD-1, and about 3 or 4 months earlier in the US and Japan. This was not before DVDs came out. It was before DVD-A came out, but only because DVD-A was repeatedly delayed over encryption and watermarking issues.
I'm fairly sure it was launched before that - maybe not in this country though - cos I remember hearing about it at school and I'm now in the 4th year of my degree.
Get the Pioneer 656 and ignore all the ******** about which is going to win. It's a damn fine DVD player to boot. :)
That's what I have just bought and it's lovely. First DVD-Audio discs should arrive this week! :clap:
Edited by Boink! as he should press preview before posting to avoid stupid spelling mistakes
Going slightly off-topic here, but a store salesman was telling me that one of the problems holding back DVD-A and SACD was that to really hear the benefit out of them you need a fairly decent sound system and the general public are normally using cheap all-in-one systems or just their TV speakers. Compared with the benefits of standard DVD where you would at least get vastly improved visual improvement through a normal TV, the costs are quite high.
Do DVD-A/SACD owners reckon this is true? I haven't heard the new audio formats yet, so can't say either way.
JamesW - Not strictly true all in one systems or 5.1 "lifestyle" speaker packages may replicate the multi-channel aspect of the music, alternatively a reasonable hi-fi will do justice to the higher quality 2 channel stuff.
Factors holding back DVD-A / SACD:
"CD was meant to be perfect sound - what can make it better?"
"You need a special player"
"What on earth is DVD-A / SACD"
"Discs are expensive"
"It's only arty stuff that gets released"
Originally posted by Boink!
That's what I have just bought and it's lovely. First DVD-Audio discs should arrive this week! :clap:
Edited by Boink! as he should press preview before posting to avoid stupid spelling mistakes
Yes, the 656 does sound nice, and it gets great reviews. I think having the capability to playback DVD-A & SACD is the sensible option. Also, i prefer Pioneer to the other manufacturers..
I guess speakers have to be capable of handling the extended frequency range in order to gain the full benefit, right?
Out of interest, what kind of sound would you expect to get out of an all in one SACD player such as the Sony SAVS 880 ? Reasonable?
Don't know. I would go and try a demo of the player.
Mine is paired with a Marantz SR5200 powering a Dali Blue 5.1 surround set [and they are a good quality speaker set]. I'm assuming I'd hear a difference.... Many A : B comparisons coming up methinks...
Actually, thinking about it, I bought the DTS set of Nine Inch Nails "And All That Could Have Been - Live" and the difference between the stereo mix and the DTS surround mix of the show was amazing.. and that was when my player was a Wharfedale 750 Mk1.
Just bought Deep Purple Machine Head DVD-A from DVDImport for £11 delivered. That should ROCK!!
Originally posted by JamesW
Going slightly off-topic here, but a store salesman was telling me that one of the problems holding back DVD-A and SACD was that to really hear the benefit out of them you need a fairly decent sound system and the general public are normally using cheap all-in-one systems or just their TV speakers. Compared with the benefits of standard DVD where you would at least get vastly improved visual improvement through a normal TV, the costs are quite high.
Do DVD-A/SACD owners reckon this is true? I haven't heard the new audio formats yet, so can't say either way.
I suppose I have a fairly decent sound system, so I can't really say what someone using a cheap all-in-one system would think, but from what I've heard so far, DVD-Audio is excellent. I haven't as yet bought any SACD discs, but I will once something is released that I want.
Originally posted by Boink!
Don't know. I would go and try a demo of the player.
Mine is paired with a Marantz SR5200 powering a Dali Blue 5.1 surround set [and they are a good quality speaker set]. I'm assuming I'd hear a difference.... Many A : B comparisons coming up methinks...
Actually, thinking about it, I bought the DTS set of Nine Inch Nails "And All That Could Have Been - Live" and the difference between the stereo mix and the DTS surround mix of the show was amazing.. and that was when my player was a Wharfedale 750 Mk1.
Just bought Deep Purple Machine Head DVD-A from DVDImport for £11 delivered. That should ROCK!!
Just read that Megadeth Peace Sells is out on DVD-A next month. Does anyone have the Metallica Black Album on DVD-A? The Foreigner DVD-As sound excellent too, oh and i see that Queeensrhych Empire is out on DVD-A too
Fast coming to the conclusion that a dual format device is the way forward...:clap: :clap:
I've got
DVD Audio - Fleetwood Mac Rumours, REM - Automatic, Corrs - In Blue, Queen- Night At The Opera
SACD - Meatloaf - Bat Out Of Hell, Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells.
I cant say that I've been able to judge whether theres anything between the two formats (played back on my 656) both can sound excellent.
As I usually listen to the multi channel mixes I think much of the perceived quality can come from the fact that we arent used to hearing music in a multi channel environment. Also the care and attention to the mix plays a crucial part.
A modern recording mixed well can be amazing, yet the use of the joystick as a blunt instrument in mixing to multi channel can produce more disorientation than enjoyment.
DSOTM should be a must however as will the probable DVD Audio of Oldfields re-recording of Tubular Bells.
Both formats need more titles!
As far as I was aware, most audiophiles believe that SACD has the edge over DVD-A and some producers are dropping DVD-A in favour of SACD, so it looks like maybe the battle will be over soon.
At the end of the day, DVD-A is still compressed audio whereas SACD is not so for really high end SACD sholud be better (Don't think anyone could really tell the difference though)
I've just bought the Pioneer 757 for the picture quality but I'm beginning to enjoy the DVDA/SACD side as well.
Current titles owned:
DVDA
REM - Automatic for the People
Queen - Night at the Opera
Telercs 1812 Overture (and I don't even like classical music!)
SACD
FGTH - Rage Hard
Harry Connick Jr - We are in Love
I generally listen in stereo only as the multichannel mixes are good from a novelty point of view but for longer listening prefer stereo.
As for who is winning the 'war', who cares? There are limited titles so by having a 757 I can choose what I want without worrying about which format my favourite disks are released on.
I've also just ordered Elvis's 30 No1's on DVD Audio, has anyone got this yet?
Originally posted by BYGino
At the end of the day, DVD-A is still compressed audio whereas SACD is not so for really high end SACD sholud be better (Don't think anyone could really tell the difference though)
No. DVD-A uses MLP - Meridian Lossless Packing. That means that the original unpacked data is guaranteed to be 100% recoverable from the data stored on the disc. If SACD does sound better, it's due to the design of the format and not the method used to pack the data onto the disc.
_
I expect universal players to be the norm in due course - then you can go for whichever format you prefer (or, more likely, whichever format those releasing what you want prefer!).
As for which is best, I doubt that Joe Public could give a toss... just as long as it's got lots of bass and swirls around the room :p
I was reading an article in a trade magazine today which was saying that there is going to be a big push on DVD Audio machines and discs shortly.
There are now 52 different record labels backing the format which is good news and hopefully means we will get a much wider variety of artists available.
DVD Audio also seems to be gaining momentum in Japan which is by far the biggest market !
But we are always reading that there is going to be a big push/relaunch of DVD-A. What is different? there was a DVD-A relaunch in the UK a while ago. Still the titles don't sell and the format continues to confuse the customers.
"Heathen" and "Rage Hard" are both excellent.
Go for a dual format player, or failing that, go for that format that has most of the music YOU like.
I recall that the recent "big push" for DVDA in the UK merely consisted of the UK launch of the US "taste centric" catalogue with no acknowledgement whatsoever that UK tastes differ somewhat.
A real missed opportunity.
Been looking into SACD/DVD-A players & discs for a couple of days now, fuelled by the imminent release of Dark Side of Moon 30th Anniv SACD.
Now, it appears to me that there is a limited choice of DVD-A discs available, and no big-seller releases scheduled in the forthcoming months.
With SACD, i can see some excellent titles available, and more to select from.
Is it true to say that SACD has won the format war, and therefore the only format to consider? I would like to buy a new DVD player with at least SACD playback. I Don't like Sony due to reliabilty issues with the last 2 players I've owned, so looking at Philips DVD763A £140, or Pioneer 656a £300 (SACD/DVD-A). Panasonic RA 82 looks nice but only DVD-A...
To buy a player supporting both formats seems to be an option, but is it really necessary?
SACDs i'm looking at:
Bowie - Heathen
Floyd - DSoM
FGTH - Rage Hard
Simple Minds - Best Of / Cry
DVD-A:
??
Metallica - Black Album
Answers:
The war has not been won by any means. DSOTM is going to be huge for SACD but it's way too early to say which way it will go.
As a happy Pioneer 656 owner, I heartily recommend it. It's not just a universal player, it's a great dvd player
Answers:
gotta agree its no over by a long shot...
dvd audio seems to have a slight edge:
a) its got the word DVD in it:) and apparently us public like that word for some reason and so marketting people do too:p
b) it can have video/images on it, marketting again like anything they can missell as an extra super exclusive only found on every third planet:lol:
also the SACD i've got (meat loaf bat out of hell) was no where near as impressive as the DVD-Audio I've got (Corrs In Blue)...and neither were as good (overall) as the various music normal dvd's.
also is there two versions of DSoM? amazon uk have the 30th aniv cd but don't mention SACD at all.
Answers:
DSOTM is a dual layer disk so can be read by both CD & SACD players (of course CD is only 2 channel). Play is the cheapest I've seen it - £9
Answers:
Both formats have awareness problems: -
SACD was launched years ago (before DVDs came out IIRC), and has been a slow burner (much like the minidisc was). The fact that it's a dony proprietry thing may hamper it's long term life.
DVD-A will inevitably just confuse the vast majority of the public -especially those who bought hifi systems with a DVD deck and can't understand why it won't play DVD-A.
In the long term, I can see DVD-A winning and single machine being both a DVD-V, DVD-A and recorder.
In the short term, both formats are decent due to the hybrid, nature of them (ie most SACDs, will play at CD quality in regular CDs, and most DVD-A have dolby digital/dts tracks)
Answers:
Originally posted by kiran_mk2
SACD was launched years ago (before DVDs came out IIRC)
You do not remember correctly. SACD launched about 3 years ago in the UK with the Sony SCD-1, and about 3 or 4 months earlier in the US and Japan. This was not before DVDs came out. It was before DVD-A came out, but only because DVD-A was repeatedly delayed over encryption and watermarking issues.
Answers:
I'm fairly sure it was launched before that - maybe not in this country though - cos I remember hearing about it at school and I'm now in the 4th year of my degree.
Answers:
Get the Pioneer 656 and ignore all the ******** about which is going to win. It's a damn fine DVD player to boot. :)
Answers:
That's what I have just bought and it's lovely. First DVD-Audio discs should arrive this week! :clap:
Edited by Boink! as he should press preview before posting to avoid stupid spelling mistakes
Answers:
Going slightly off-topic here, but a store salesman was telling me that one of the problems holding back DVD-A and SACD was that to really hear the benefit out of them you need a fairly decent sound system and the general public are normally using cheap all-in-one systems or just their TV speakers. Compared with the benefits of standard DVD where you would at least get vastly improved visual improvement through a normal TV, the costs are quite high.
Do DVD-A/SACD owners reckon this is true? I haven't heard the new audio formats yet, so can't say either way.
Answers:
JamesW - Not strictly true all in one systems or 5.1 "lifestyle" speaker packages may replicate the multi-channel aspect of the music, alternatively a reasonable hi-fi will do justice to the higher quality 2 channel stuff.
Factors holding back DVD-A / SACD:
"CD was meant to be perfect sound - what can make it better?"
"You need a special player"
"What on earth is DVD-A / SACD"
"Discs are expensive"
"It's only arty stuff that gets released"
Answers:
Originally posted by Boink!
That's what I have just bought and it's lovely. First DVD-Audio discs should arrive this week! :clap:
Edited by Boink! as he should press preview before posting to avoid stupid spelling mistakes
Yes, the 656 does sound nice, and it gets great reviews. I think having the capability to playback DVD-A & SACD is the sensible option. Also, i prefer Pioneer to the other manufacturers..
I guess speakers have to be capable of handling the extended frequency range in order to gain the full benefit, right?
Out of interest, what kind of sound would you expect to get out of an all in one SACD player such as the Sony SAVS 880 ? Reasonable?
Answers:
Don't know. I would go and try a demo of the player.
Mine is paired with a Marantz SR5200 powering a Dali Blue 5.1 surround set [and they are a good quality speaker set]. I'm assuming I'd hear a difference.... Many A : B comparisons coming up methinks...
Actually, thinking about it, I bought the DTS set of Nine Inch Nails "And All That Could Have Been - Live" and the difference between the stereo mix and the DTS surround mix of the show was amazing.. and that was when my player was a Wharfedale 750 Mk1.
Just bought Deep Purple Machine Head DVD-A from DVDImport for £11 delivered. That should ROCK!!
Answers:
Originally posted by JamesW
Going slightly off-topic here, but a store salesman was telling me that one of the problems holding back DVD-A and SACD was that to really hear the benefit out of them you need a fairly decent sound system and the general public are normally using cheap all-in-one systems or just their TV speakers. Compared with the benefits of standard DVD where you would at least get vastly improved visual improvement through a normal TV, the costs are quite high.
Do DVD-A/SACD owners reckon this is true? I haven't heard the new audio formats yet, so can't say either way.
I suppose I have a fairly decent sound system, so I can't really say what someone using a cheap all-in-one system would think, but from what I've heard so far, DVD-Audio is excellent. I haven't as yet bought any SACD discs, but I will once something is released that I want.
Answers:
Originally posted by Boink!
Don't know. I would go and try a demo of the player.
Mine is paired with a Marantz SR5200 powering a Dali Blue 5.1 surround set [and they are a good quality speaker set]. I'm assuming I'd hear a difference.... Many A : B comparisons coming up methinks...
Actually, thinking about it, I bought the DTS set of Nine Inch Nails "And All That Could Have Been - Live" and the difference between the stereo mix and the DTS surround mix of the show was amazing.. and that was when my player was a Wharfedale 750 Mk1.
Just bought Deep Purple Machine Head DVD-A from DVDImport for £11 delivered. That should ROCK!!
Just read that Megadeth Peace Sells is out on DVD-A next month. Does anyone have the Metallica Black Album on DVD-A? The Foreigner DVD-As sound excellent too, oh and i see that Queeensrhych Empire is out on DVD-A too
Fast coming to the conclusion that a dual format device is the way forward...:clap: :clap:
Answers:
I've got
DVD Audio - Fleetwood Mac Rumours, REM - Automatic, Corrs - In Blue, Queen- Night At The Opera
SACD - Meatloaf - Bat Out Of Hell, Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells.
I cant say that I've been able to judge whether theres anything between the two formats (played back on my 656) both can sound excellent.
As I usually listen to the multi channel mixes I think much of the perceived quality can come from the fact that we arent used to hearing music in a multi channel environment. Also the care and attention to the mix plays a crucial part.
A modern recording mixed well can be amazing, yet the use of the joystick as a blunt instrument in mixing to multi channel can produce more disorientation than enjoyment.
DSOTM should be a must however as will the probable DVD Audio of Oldfields re-recording of Tubular Bells.
Both formats need more titles!
Answers:
As far as I was aware, most audiophiles believe that SACD has the edge over DVD-A and some producers are dropping DVD-A in favour of SACD, so it looks like maybe the battle will be over soon.
At the end of the day, DVD-A is still compressed audio whereas SACD is not so for really high end SACD sholud be better (Don't think anyone could really tell the difference though)
Answers:
I've just bought the Pioneer 757 for the picture quality but I'm beginning to enjoy the DVDA/SACD side as well.
Current titles owned:
DVDA
REM - Automatic for the People
Queen - Night at the Opera
Telercs 1812 Overture (and I don't even like classical music!)
SACD
FGTH - Rage Hard
Harry Connick Jr - We are in Love
I generally listen in stereo only as the multichannel mixes are good from a novelty point of view but for longer listening prefer stereo.
As for who is winning the 'war', who cares? There are limited titles so by having a 757 I can choose what I want without worrying about which format my favourite disks are released on.
I've also just ordered Elvis's 30 No1's on DVD Audio, has anyone got this yet?
Answers:
Originally posted by BYGino
At the end of the day, DVD-A is still compressed audio whereas SACD is not so for really high end SACD sholud be better (Don't think anyone could really tell the difference though)
No. DVD-A uses MLP - Meridian Lossless Packing. That means that the original unpacked data is guaranteed to be 100% recoverable from the data stored on the disc. If SACD does sound better, it's due to the design of the format and not the method used to pack the data onto the disc.
_
Answers:
I expect universal players to be the norm in due course - then you can go for whichever format you prefer (or, more likely, whichever format those releasing what you want prefer!).
As for which is best, I doubt that Joe Public could give a toss... just as long as it's got lots of bass and swirls around the room :p
Answers:
I was reading an article in a trade magazine today which was saying that there is going to be a big push on DVD Audio machines and discs shortly.
There are now 52 different record labels backing the format which is good news and hopefully means we will get a much wider variety of artists available.
DVD Audio also seems to be gaining momentum in Japan which is by far the biggest market !
Answers:
But we are always reading that there is going to be a big push/relaunch of DVD-A. What is different? there was a DVD-A relaunch in the UK a while ago. Still the titles don't sell and the format continues to confuse the customers.
Answers:
"Heathen" and "Rage Hard" are both excellent.
Go for a dual format player, or failing that, go for that format that has most of the music YOU like.
Answers:
I recall that the recent "big push" for DVDA in the UK merely consisted of the UK launch of the US "taste centric" catalogue with no acknowledgement whatsoever that UK tastes differ somewhat.
A real missed opportunity.
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