Question:
OK got my Toshiba 220E a few days ago and it's great but sometimes i notice if a picture is panning accross a brick wall for example it goes a bit weird. Also sometimes people's clothes you notice them look a bit odd sometimes, and some edges arent that smooth. Are these all digital artifacts or would a more expensive (say, £30) SCART cable help? I'm using a cheap bog standard SCART at the moment.
Another thing - what does RGB SCART mean? I know RGB is red green blue but I set the player to RGB when I first used the player and me and my sister where watching Buffy and it looked really bad, sort of grainy and dark. But I've heard RGB is good, so is my TV not capable of it? It's a 7 year old Toshiba 2535DB.
You will need to check that you have hooked up the player to the TV's RGB compatible SCART socket (it may be that only one is RGB compatible even if it has two/three scart sockets) if it has one at all - check the manual for this.
Also, you will need a fully wired scart lead in order to utilise RGB, which a cheapy may not be. I would advise anyone to get a decent scart lead if you are using decent kit at either end of it. It is a bit like owning a Porsche but driving only on B-roads. I wouldn't spend a fortune either though, as high quality leads can be had for around the 25-30 mark if you shop around on the net. Anything by Thor, QED or Ixos will do the job nicely.
Thanks mate. Do you think a Thor will help clear up the anomolies I mentioned, like the brick walls and the clothing and edges?
Hard to tell, but certainly a decent scart will take away jagged edges, possibly not the brick wall issues though.
Tried the other SCART socket on the TV and it seems to work fine in RGB mode, and edges are much better. Still getting they weird effect on the brick walls though... I'll buy a Thor tomorrow I think...
Where we getting our 'Thor' cables from then?
EDIT Are they better than IXOS and what sort of cost are they?
Damn, look at the time! :zzz:
Is this "brick wall" effect disc specific? In my experience such artefacts are as a result of poor MPEG encoding on the disc transfer, rather than cable related. Try more than one disc, and, if possible, try the scene in question on another TV/player combination.
RGB is a display format, SCART is simply a name for a cable standard than may transfer several formats.
Picture quality in order of preference:
Component Video
RGB
S-Video
Composite
This is a general guide and on some TV/player combinations S-Video can look as good as, or better than, RGB. Component is the best (and may allow Progressive Scan with suitable equipment) but is only now starting to appear on a decent amount of players and TV's.
Oh and Buffy's video quality isn't up to much anyhow.
Toshibas used to be notorious for not displaying RGB very well. If yours is 7 years old then it almost certainly would have this problem. It may be an idea to check out s-video. I find that s-video looks better on my Panny, also RGB looks sharper but darker on a friends Sanyo - so they don't use it either.
In theory, yes - RGB is best - but it's not always that clear cut.
Well the RGB seems fine with "The Office" now that I've changed scart sockets on the TV. The brick wall thing is on the opening credits of The Office disc, there is a building with a wall made of bricks and you get an unnatural effect with it. I might get an S-video cable tomorrow as well...
Originally posted by Deadly Green Poison
Well the RGB seems fine with "The Office" now that I've changed scart sockets on the TV. The brick wall thing is on the opening credits of The Office disc, there is a building with a wall made of bricks and you get an unnatural effect with it. I might get an S-video cable tomorrow as well...
Like Radiohead was saying, that pretty much sounds like a bit of dodgy encoding or more likey the budget limitations of filming a show like The Office.
Originally posted by Boink!
Where we getting our 'Thor' cables from then?
EDIT Are they better than IXOS and what sort of cost are they?
Damn, look at the time! :zzz:
Beststuff.co.uk for Thors recently, but there was a big thread in the bargain forum, so try a search in there as there was a couple of places doing some good prices on them. Ixos are arguably better than Thor and as I have both in my setup I would agree. A QED Squart is the mutts, but top dollar and possibly not worth the premium?
Thor here http://www.grandata.co.uk/acatalog/Grandata__THOR_AUDIO___VIDEO_CABLES_673.html
I got the 1.5m for £23.33 delivered next day after I ordered it, can't be bad.
Just looked....Beststuff £27.50 delivered.
I get this with my sammy on composite, make sure you got RGB selected on the dvd and tv.
Unless your current scart lead is an extrememley poor one , i can't see buying a better cable making any difference.
It won't make any difference to jagged edges ,and the unnatural effects are most likely due to the player's decoding (though it is possible it could be caused by poor shielding on the cable).
If you have a "Wilkinsons" store near you , you can pick up a decent scart lead for £4.99 ( Maxview digital with gold connectors, moulded plugs, OFC cables both individually screened and outer screened). Paying more than this is mainly a snobbery thing (any picture improvement would not be noticeable by most people).
I can tell you its not snobbery at all.
I had a bog standard scart on my 656 and the picture was ok,swapped it for a thor and the difference is very noticeable. If you have the money get a better scart, even if its only the one simes mentions it has to be better than the bog standard crap.
No it isnt snobbery. Coming from a HiFi background I know the kind of difference good cables make, to sound at least. I've been using £80 van den Hul D102Mk3 interconnects between my CD player and amp for 5 years. The only interconnects that come close are some teflon coated silver ones I made myself which sound truely amazing but would cost well over a hundred I suspect if you could buy them ready made.
You've got to actually try decent cables before you realise how much affect they can have.
I come from a HiFi background too and top of the range cables will make a noticable difference in the audio quality department. However, I can't say I've seen this same rule apply to Home Entertainment. Maybe you need to be using high end equipment with a huge TV screen to notice any difference.
OK, so not coming from a hi-fi background...
For your average Joe, using an average DVD, on an average Widescreen TV, will good scart leads make much more than an average difference?
Well I think it's gonna be relative. For an average DVD player spend an average amount on a scart, maybe £30 (although the Thor is £19 at one of the websites mentioned above...)
The Supra AV6(RGB) SCART costs £80 and got 5 stars in WHF? ("movies benefit from an impressive depth of field"). But they'll have tested it with a very expensive TV.
Originally posted by coolamoke
OK, so not coming from a hi-fi background...
For your average Joe, using an average DVD, on an average Widescreen TV, will good scart leads make much more than an average difference?
No.
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
No.
But the term "average difference". How do you define that? And is it worth it? ;)
Originally posted by Deadly Green Poison
But the term "average difference". How do you define that? And is it worth it? ;)
OK, I guess it's all relative.
You have persuaded me to upgrade my scarts one JVC and one of unknown origin (that looks very cheap).
If I get no difference - I will be asking both of you for my money back :D ;)
I was using a cheapish scart to connect my Pioneer 717 to my Sony 36FS70 but I now have an Ixos and I could see the picture was sharper straight away.
Some very good quality Gold plated scart leads + all pins wired at my local market in Leicester, only £5.
Made a difference when I connected the Sky box via rgb.
Originally posted by Simes
Unless your current scart lead is an extrememley poor one , i can't see buying a better cable making any difference.
It won't make any difference to jagged edges ,and the unnatural effects are most likely due to the player's decoding (though it is possible it could be caused by poor shielding on the cable).
If you have a "Wilkinsons" store near you , you can pick up a decent scart lead for £4.99 ( Maxview digital with gold connectors, moulded plugs, OFC cables both individually screened and outer screened). Paying more than this is mainly a snobbery thing (any picture improvement would not be noticeable by most people).
Sorry, but you are plainly and simply wrong. If a 4.99 maxview is good enough for you then that is fine. However I can guarantee that on decent gear a Thor, Ixos or QED Squart will definitely improve the picture performance. Also a decent lead will make a difference to jagged edges.
I don't buy expensive (relative to what?) cables for the fun of it, nor do I tell people I use Thor, Ixos etc (for one thing people wouldn't have a smeg what I was on about). I just like to have a good quality picture on a TV that cost nearly 2k.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Just
Sorry, but you are plainly and simply wrong. If a 4.99 maxview is good enough for you then that is fine. However I can guarantee that on decent gear a Thor, Ixos or QED Squart will definitely improve the picture performance. Also a decent lead will make a difference to jagged edges.
Except you can't because you don't own his set-up.
As you point out your TV cost around 2K, I don't think anybody has said decent cables wouldn't make a difference on an expensive set-up.
Originally posted by john306
Thor here http://www.grandata.co.uk/acatalog/Grandata__THOR_AUDIO___VIDEO_CABLES_673.html
I got the 1.5m for £23.33 delivered next day after I ordered it, can't be bad.
Is this site secure?
Just tried to order one of these, but am not getting a padlock symbol. Also, File>Properties says it's a 'not encrypted' connection.
Who cares? I dont. I ordered one from there 2 days ago...
I know this is slightly off topic, but would one of these JVC Scart cables in Dixons (Model Number JVC J122) be capable of carrying an RGB signal? If it helps, it has gold plated connectors.
I would be very surprised it any freely available SCART can't carry an RGB signal. Most SCARTS have all 21 pins wired up and can thus carry RGB, S-Video, Composite et al. Some higher-end SCARTS are wired for video only and will not carry an audio signal.
That's what I thought, but a lot of the talk on the forum just baffled me a bit.
Just reaslised after having my player on RGB for ages that after moving the VCR around the house, I'd plugged it in the wrong scart socket on the back of the telly.
:brickwall :brickwall :brickwall
Originally posted by Highlander
Is this site secure?
Just tried to order one of these, but am not getting a padlock symbol. Also, File>Properties says it's a 'not encrypted' connection.
No the site appears to have no SSL encryption thus makes it easy for some techie to intercept our credit card info. :nono:
I'd have to choose the option to send my CC info. separately if I was gonna order from them. :oh-hum:
Why? Just order from them, and if something bad happens your credit card company sorts it out. It's not a big deal really.
Originally posted by Deadly Green Poison
Why? Just order from them, and if something bad happens your credit card company sorts it out. It's not a big deal really.
Did you order these cables?
'26455T' - 1.5m
Component cables are just phono cables right?
Thanks.
Originally posted by Cheng
Did you order these cables?
'26455T' - 1.5m
Component cables are just phono cables right?
Thanks.
Well I ordered the 1.5m SCART. "26481T"
My television doesnt have component inputs so I cant use them.
If you've got component inputs on your TV then 3 phono might be ok, I'm not really sure to be honest. Looking at the component cables they tested in What HiFi the cheapest set is the £50 Ixos 1713-300, but that's a 3m length, 1.5 will be a bit cheaper. And then there's the award winning Supra AV3 Component at £65. You might find these cheaper on the net...
You can get Supra cables cheaper by ordering from Supradirect www.supradirect.co.uk/shop/enter.html
Supra AV3 Component is £51.99 from Supradirect.
hi all
re: Also a decent lead will make a difference to jagged edges.
yeah they will make the edges sharper :D
I made a scart cable with RG179 coaxes for each video signal and taped em all together.
it made the picture look better than the awful bundled lead i was comparing it to, but i doubt any of these fancy name leads would have any way of being "better" than that cable i made.
unless there is something magical i don't know about ;)
perhaps i should manufacture these to order? :D
Bill
Another thing - what does RGB SCART mean? I know RGB is red green blue but I set the player to RGB when I first used the player and me and my sister where watching Buffy and it looked really bad, sort of grainy and dark. But I've heard RGB is good, so is my TV not capable of it? It's a 7 year old Toshiba 2535DB.
Answers:
You will need to check that you have hooked up the player to the TV's RGB compatible SCART socket (it may be that only one is RGB compatible even if it has two/three scart sockets) if it has one at all - check the manual for this.
Also, you will need a fully wired scart lead in order to utilise RGB, which a cheapy may not be. I would advise anyone to get a decent scart lead if you are using decent kit at either end of it. It is a bit like owning a Porsche but driving only on B-roads. I wouldn't spend a fortune either though, as high quality leads can be had for around the 25-30 mark if you shop around on the net. Anything by Thor, QED or Ixos will do the job nicely.
Answers:
Thanks mate. Do you think a Thor will help clear up the anomolies I mentioned, like the brick walls and the clothing and edges?
Answers:
Hard to tell, but certainly a decent scart will take away jagged edges, possibly not the brick wall issues though.
Answers:
Tried the other SCART socket on the TV and it seems to work fine in RGB mode, and edges are much better. Still getting they weird effect on the brick walls though... I'll buy a Thor tomorrow I think...
Answers:
Where we getting our 'Thor' cables from then?
EDIT Are they better than IXOS and what sort of cost are they?
Damn, look at the time! :zzz:
Answers:
Is this "brick wall" effect disc specific? In my experience such artefacts are as a result of poor MPEG encoding on the disc transfer, rather than cable related. Try more than one disc, and, if possible, try the scene in question on another TV/player combination.
RGB is a display format, SCART is simply a name for a cable standard than may transfer several formats.
Picture quality in order of preference:
Component Video
RGB
S-Video
Composite
This is a general guide and on some TV/player combinations S-Video can look as good as, or better than, RGB. Component is the best (and may allow Progressive Scan with suitable equipment) but is only now starting to appear on a decent amount of players and TV's.
Answers:
Oh and Buffy's video quality isn't up to much anyhow.
Answers:
Toshibas used to be notorious for not displaying RGB very well. If yours is 7 years old then it almost certainly would have this problem. It may be an idea to check out s-video. I find that s-video looks better on my Panny, also RGB looks sharper but darker on a friends Sanyo - so they don't use it either.
In theory, yes - RGB is best - but it's not always that clear cut.
Answers:
Well the RGB seems fine with "The Office" now that I've changed scart sockets on the TV. The brick wall thing is on the opening credits of The Office disc, there is a building with a wall made of bricks and you get an unnatural effect with it. I might get an S-video cable tomorrow as well...
Answers:
Originally posted by Deadly Green Poison
Well the RGB seems fine with "The Office" now that I've changed scart sockets on the TV. The brick wall thing is on the opening credits of The Office disc, there is a building with a wall made of bricks and you get an unnatural effect with it. I might get an S-video cable tomorrow as well...
Like Radiohead was saying, that pretty much sounds like a bit of dodgy encoding or more likey the budget limitations of filming a show like The Office.
Answers:
Originally posted by Boink!
Where we getting our 'Thor' cables from then?
EDIT Are they better than IXOS and what sort of cost are they?
Damn, look at the time! :zzz:
Beststuff.co.uk for Thors recently, but there was a big thread in the bargain forum, so try a search in there as there was a couple of places doing some good prices on them. Ixos are arguably better than Thor and as I have both in my setup I would agree. A QED Squart is the mutts, but top dollar and possibly not worth the premium?
Answers:
Thor here http://www.grandata.co.uk/acatalog/Grandata__THOR_AUDIO___VIDEO_CABLES_673.html
I got the 1.5m for £23.33 delivered next day after I ordered it, can't be bad.
Just looked....Beststuff £27.50 delivered.
Answers:
I get this with my sammy on composite, make sure you got RGB selected on the dvd and tv.
Answers:
Unless your current scart lead is an extrememley poor one , i can't see buying a better cable making any difference.
It won't make any difference to jagged edges ,and the unnatural effects are most likely due to the player's decoding (though it is possible it could be caused by poor shielding on the cable).
If you have a "Wilkinsons" store near you , you can pick up a decent scart lead for £4.99 ( Maxview digital with gold connectors, moulded plugs, OFC cables both individually screened and outer screened). Paying more than this is mainly a snobbery thing (any picture improvement would not be noticeable by most people).
Answers:
I can tell you its not snobbery at all.
I had a bog standard scart on my 656 and the picture was ok,swapped it for a thor and the difference is very noticeable. If you have the money get a better scart, even if its only the one simes mentions it has to be better than the bog standard crap.
Answers:
No it isnt snobbery. Coming from a HiFi background I know the kind of difference good cables make, to sound at least. I've been using £80 van den Hul D102Mk3 interconnects between my CD player and amp for 5 years. The only interconnects that come close are some teflon coated silver ones I made myself which sound truely amazing but would cost well over a hundred I suspect if you could buy them ready made.
You've got to actually try decent cables before you realise how much affect they can have.
Answers:
I come from a HiFi background too and top of the range cables will make a noticable difference in the audio quality department. However, I can't say I've seen this same rule apply to Home Entertainment. Maybe you need to be using high end equipment with a huge TV screen to notice any difference.
Answers:
OK, so not coming from a hi-fi background...
For your average Joe, using an average DVD, on an average Widescreen TV, will good scart leads make much more than an average difference?
Answers:
Well I think it's gonna be relative. For an average DVD player spend an average amount on a scart, maybe £30 (although the Thor is £19 at one of the websites mentioned above...)
The Supra AV6(RGB) SCART costs £80 and got 5 stars in WHF? ("movies benefit from an impressive depth of field"). But they'll have tested it with a very expensive TV.
Answers:
Originally posted by coolamoke
OK, so not coming from a hi-fi background...
For your average Joe, using an average DVD, on an average Widescreen TV, will good scart leads make much more than an average difference?
No.
Answers:
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
No.
But the term "average difference". How do you define that? And is it worth it? ;)
Answers:
Originally posted by Deadly Green Poison
But the term "average difference". How do you define that? And is it worth it? ;)
OK, I guess it's all relative.
You have persuaded me to upgrade my scarts one JVC and one of unknown origin (that looks very cheap).
If I get no difference - I will be asking both of you for my money back :D ;)
Answers:
I was using a cheapish scart to connect my Pioneer 717 to my Sony 36FS70 but I now have an Ixos and I could see the picture was sharper straight away.
Answers:
Some very good quality Gold plated scart leads + all pins wired at my local market in Leicester, only £5.
Made a difference when I connected the Sky box via rgb.
Answers:
Originally posted by Simes
Unless your current scart lead is an extrememley poor one , i can't see buying a better cable making any difference.
It won't make any difference to jagged edges ,and the unnatural effects are most likely due to the player's decoding (though it is possible it could be caused by poor shielding on the cable).
If you have a "Wilkinsons" store near you , you can pick up a decent scart lead for £4.99 ( Maxview digital with gold connectors, moulded plugs, OFC cables both individually screened and outer screened). Paying more than this is mainly a snobbery thing (any picture improvement would not be noticeable by most people).
Sorry, but you are plainly and simply wrong. If a 4.99 maxview is good enough for you then that is fine. However I can guarantee that on decent gear a Thor, Ixos or QED Squart will definitely improve the picture performance. Also a decent lead will make a difference to jagged edges.
I don't buy expensive (relative to what?) cables for the fun of it, nor do I tell people I use Thor, Ixos etc (for one thing people wouldn't have a smeg what I was on about). I just like to have a good quality picture on a TV that cost nearly 2k.
Answers:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Just
Sorry, but you are plainly and simply wrong. If a 4.99 maxview is good enough for you then that is fine. However I can guarantee that on decent gear a Thor, Ixos or QED Squart will definitely improve the picture performance. Also a decent lead will make a difference to jagged edges.
Except you can't because you don't own his set-up.
As you point out your TV cost around 2K, I don't think anybody has said decent cables wouldn't make a difference on an expensive set-up.
Answers:
Originally posted by john306
Thor here http://www.grandata.co.uk/acatalog/Grandata__THOR_AUDIO___VIDEO_CABLES_673.html
I got the 1.5m for £23.33 delivered next day after I ordered it, can't be bad.
Is this site secure?
Just tried to order one of these, but am not getting a padlock symbol. Also, File>Properties says it's a 'not encrypted' connection.
Answers:
Who cares? I dont. I ordered one from there 2 days ago...
Answers:
I know this is slightly off topic, but would one of these JVC Scart cables in Dixons (Model Number JVC J122) be capable of carrying an RGB signal? If it helps, it has gold plated connectors.
Answers:
I would be very surprised it any freely available SCART can't carry an RGB signal. Most SCARTS have all 21 pins wired up and can thus carry RGB, S-Video, Composite et al. Some higher-end SCARTS are wired for video only and will not carry an audio signal.
Answers:
That's what I thought, but a lot of the talk on the forum just baffled me a bit.
Just reaslised after having my player on RGB for ages that after moving the VCR around the house, I'd plugged it in the wrong scart socket on the back of the telly.
:brickwall :brickwall :brickwall
Answers:
Originally posted by Highlander
Is this site secure?
Just tried to order one of these, but am not getting a padlock symbol. Also, File>Properties says it's a 'not encrypted' connection.
No the site appears to have no SSL encryption thus makes it easy for some techie to intercept our credit card info. :nono:
I'd have to choose the option to send my CC info. separately if I was gonna order from them. :oh-hum:
Answers:
Why? Just order from them, and if something bad happens your credit card company sorts it out. It's not a big deal really.
Answers:
Originally posted by Deadly Green Poison
Why? Just order from them, and if something bad happens your credit card company sorts it out. It's not a big deal really.
Did you order these cables?
'26455T' - 1.5m
Component cables are just phono cables right?
Thanks.
Answers:
Originally posted by Cheng
Did you order these cables?
'26455T' - 1.5m
Component cables are just phono cables right?
Thanks.
Well I ordered the 1.5m SCART. "26481T"
My television doesnt have component inputs so I cant use them.
If you've got component inputs on your TV then 3 phono might be ok, I'm not really sure to be honest. Looking at the component cables they tested in What HiFi the cheapest set is the £50 Ixos 1713-300, but that's a 3m length, 1.5 will be a bit cheaper. And then there's the award winning Supra AV3 Component at £65. You might find these cheaper on the net...
Answers:
You can get Supra cables cheaper by ordering from Supradirect www.supradirect.co.uk/shop/enter.html
Answers:
Supra AV3 Component is £51.99 from Supradirect.
Answers:
hi all
re: Also a decent lead will make a difference to jagged edges.
yeah they will make the edges sharper :D
I made a scart cable with RG179 coaxes for each video signal and taped em all together.
it made the picture look better than the awful bundled lead i was comparing it to, but i doubt any of these fancy name leads would have any way of being "better" than that cable i made.
unless there is something magical i don't know about ;)
perhaps i should manufacture these to order? :D
Bill
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